Another valeo victim to add to the tally - MB

[Druk]

Good luck. It's time someone took them to task over this.

 

[Smiley]

Thanks for taking so much time and trouble to give me all this information. I'll be putting my letter together today and sending it off.

Just been checking up on the latest rules as it has been a while since I used the small claims procedure. You may be better limiting your claim to £5,000 as that way you will not be liable for MBs solicitor's costs if you were to lose - and they could use that to "play poker" with you - and bet that you would not take the risk of incurring their [massive] costs.


Take a look on this link.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

 

[Smiley]

Just re-read the thread - why has the warranty company refused the claim?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

You may be better limiting your claim to £5,000 as that way you will not be liable for MBs solicitor's costs if you were to lose - and they could use that to "play poker" with you - and bet that you would not take the risk of incurring their [massive] costs.

Excellent advice.

 

[Ratz]

Just re-read the thread - why has the warranty company refused the claim?

Warranty company hasn't refused, they were trying to get money out of MB before proceeding. In the event of MB refusing to contribute they send an 'independant' engineer to check the car before authorising. Although I am a little nervous until I actually get that authorisation.

interestingly the warranty company were surprised that MB had refused, one of their staff I spoke to yesterday said that 'they (MB) are usually pretty good with this problem as it is well known'.

Just to clarify for the record. My car was bought privately (with FMBSH) in August 2007. I decided to buy a 3rd party warranty (from Warranty Direct), who will pay for 100% parts & up to £40 per hour labour costs. The car had not been serviced for just about 2 years so I took it to an Indie (who I know) for a B-Service although it wasn't showing as needing it yet. I bought the car with 39k miles on the clock and have done 12k miles since.

I hope this clears a few things up. I am sorry if I mislead people into thinking I was liable for the full amount (although I am still not 100% sure warranty company will pay up yet), but it will still be around £1000 out of my pocket.

One more thing I forgot to mention, the diagnosis by MB Macclesfield is based on the fact that there is evidence of emulsification in the sump ( I assume they mean gearbox sump??).

 

[Ratz]

Update

This is just a quick post because I have a number of letters to write to magazines, MB UK etc.

MB UK have just refused any kind of contribution for a second time and haven't even the courtesy to let me know, I had to call them(again) to find out. The dealer has just told me they have a bill for me for the diagnosis - evidently they don't think I've been screwed enough (the car has been with them for 3 weeks now and I've had no offer of a courtesy car). I have had one single unsolicited phone call from the dealer in this whole sorry episode, otherwise I have had broken promises of calls which I have then had to chase.

The car will be going to a transmission specialist for repair (mostly at my warranty company's expense). As soon as it is back on the road I will be trading it in.

Frankly I think the car is shocking and MB's customer service woeful. They've just lost 2 customers forever, I hope their business gets its just rewards if this is how they think we should be treated.

Sorry for the rant, but I am just so upset after spending so long dreaming of owning an MB and this is the outcome.

Happy New Year everyone, and all the best.

 

[trapperjohn]

Really sorry Ratz.

So Ratz draws a line under his Mercedes ownership forever and moves on into 2009. Good Luck Ratz, keep us posted where your hard earned goes next. Wonder how people employed by Mercedes feel when they read his posts, do they ever wonder about colateral damage and image tarnishing. Me, Im very happy with my Mercs and the service I receive from my specialist of choice, Ian B walker of 124 Works. Would I move from my "older" Mercs to a newer one, not a chance after reading too many threads of maladies of newer Mercs. On balance there are posts of good times of ownership. Take Care everyone, have a great New Year. CHEERS.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Sorry to hear the news Ratz. Sounds like your third party warranty will pick up from here - were MB aware that another warranty was in place? If so, I wonder if that information influenced their decision?

Worth trying the online small claims whatsit? I guess if the third party warranty had not be in place, then it would have been a worthwhile next step.

Keep us posted on repairs. As time goes by, there will be more repairs of this type conducted outside of franchised dealers, and so any information you can share will be a useful resource.

 

[Ratz]

I love my Mercedes for the way it feels, the way it looks and the way it drives. But unfortunately the price is just too steep both financially & hassle.

I'd love to make MB sweat a little and take them to court, but I am looking at around 2 months before I even get to face them and frankly life's just too short. As it stands it's going to cost me ~£500 to get the car repaired and then get rid ASAP.

What amazes me is from a business perspective how much must it cost MB to 'win' a new customer (x2 for me and the wife) and then to cast them aside so easily.

BD, I suspect the 3rd party warranty did play a part in the goodwill claim process - but the guy I have been dealing with at the warranty company was genuinely amazed at a full rejection. He brought up a case on his screen he knew of a car at the same age with the same problem but at 90k miles on which MB had fully covered the repair - go figure!

As I may have mentioned before, my dad's been in the motor trade for 40+ years from apprentice to Dealer Principal and he's been hopping mad wanting to shout at MB on my behalf.

My next car(if it's still available) will be a new shape BMW 530i SE(non-diesel) with lots of toys.

Thanks for all the responses, and sorry I am bailing out on the fight with MB, but I figure the only true threat I can carry out is to vote with my feet and tell everyone I know not to buy one - and I am doing that!

 

[jaymanek]

One more thing I forgot to mention, the diagnosis by MB Macclesfield is based on the fact that there is evidence of emulsification in the sump ( I assume they mean gearbox sump??).

Wouldnt be enough for me... Be interesting to see what the gearbox specialist says... although they will probably go down the easy route of replacement..

 

[Ratz]

Wouldnt be enough for me... Be interesting to see what the gearbox specialist says... although they will probably go down the easy route of replacement..

The procedure for the warranty is for the gearbox specialist is to strip the gearbox after which an independant engineer will confirm the diagnosis. The gearbox specialist will then repair the gearbox, not replace.

My advice to anyone buying an early 211 is make sure you have a warranty in place, because this repair is so expensive. For information the warranty I have cost £330.

 

[BIGjoe]

Could the fact that the claim was refused had something to do with the dealership being factory owned.
I dealt with McLean and Appleton for several years before MB pulled the plug on their franchise, and nothing has convinced me that the new outlet offers anywhere near the service provided by M&A and their efficient, honest and helpful setup.
Most of the staff transfered, but seemed to have dissapeared over the last four years. The service department have tried to hoodwink me into spending 100's of £'s on several occasions,(the last was £700 for new injectors + labour to cure some combustion leakage, I declined and suggested they tried new washers and bolts ) which has left a bitter taste. The final straw was when the car recently went for some new tyres at the local tyre man, and the wheelnut key was missing from the car. Well the last time the wheels came off was when the car was serviced at Macc and new front brake pads were fitted, of course MB Macc declined responsibilty, and it cost me £27 to replace it, needless to say I bought it elsewhere, at MB Warrington (Inchcape).

 

[Ratz]

I went into the dealership again on Wednesday to collect some paperwork I had left with them and to discuss the fact that I was being charged to find out that I was being screwed.

After being kept waiting for 30 mins I asked to speak to the Service Manager. Up until this point I have been very patient and courteous to all in the hope that this would help, but by now I have given up on that particular tack. I told him the service had been shocking, setting aside MB's refusal to impart any goodwill. I shan't go into the detail of the conversation but to be fair he said there had been redundancies and restructures (imposed by MB) which had left them stretched. We ended up having a positive outcome and the labour for diagnosis was waived. He even suggested that they would help me out of the car if I could consider buying another MB. As I have said previously in this thread my dad's been in the trade for 40+ years (many as a Service Manager) and so I took it that the dealer were trying to help, but that frankly MB UK had screwed us both. My impression is of a dealership (I know they're all MB now anyway) trying to help their customers but being hamstrung by people at MB Central who wouldn't know a customer from a bean.

I await a response from the letter I sent to the director of customer services.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

...but that frankly MB UK had screwed us both. My impression is of a dealership (I know they're all MB now anyway) trying to help their customers but being hamstrung by people at MB Central who wouldn't know a customer from a bean.

Not all dealerships are operated by MB themselves. Only the particularly lucrative, I mean err, OK I do mean lucrative ones.

IIRC MB London, MB Birmingham and MB Manchester - along with their satellites - are owned by MB. Others operate as a franchised dealership.

Given your location, maybe the dealership you use is operated by MB themselves though.

I can just as easily visit a franchised group or MB Birmingham, but the service and the MB operated ones is shocking.

 

[maddog]

Not all dealerships are operated by MB themselves. Only the particularly lucrative, I mean err, OK I do mean lucrative ones.

IIRC MB London, MB Birmingham and MB Manchester - along with their satellites - are owned by MB. Others operate as a franchised dealership.

Given your location, maybe the dealership you use is operated by MB themselves though.

I can just as easily visit a franchised group or MB Birmingham, but the service and the MB operated ones is shocking.

I've tried three dealerships and to be honest i've found them all lacking in basic customer service and pretty much incompetant or decietful depends on how you look at it , the total lack of suitable dealerships mean i have no choice to go away from MB probably never to return

The money and effort MB have spent trying to improve the dealer network in recent years seems pretty much wasted as any short term improvement didnt last

It seems the hardcore Merc fans are those with cars built over 10 years back and to be honest people expect less on these cars anyhow, but anything newer tends to leave a sour taste in the mouth sooner or later and when problems are not dealt with properly by the dealerships you really feel on your own, these people are drifting away from the marque never to return and these are the people who buy the cars in the first place

People are not going to buy new cars if the ownership experience is not pleasant and whilst all cars have their problems its how these are dealt with that makes the difference and the companies that realise this are those that flourish , when MB really start to really suffer they will certainly know the reason

 

[MBManInKen]

the MB operated ones is shocking.

That is certainly in line with my experience here in London and I won't set a foot in their premises again. Absolute t******* and no respect for customers.

 

[Smiley]

All this reflects my experiences exactly. Super customer service from **** Lovett many years ago but oh dear what a difference since. Like someone has already said it is what keeps me in an older Benz - W124 in my case. I will not buy a car that "needs" to go to a MB main dealer - life is too short and I do not want to be "screwed".

Maybe someone in MK is reading this lot?

 

[Buggerlugs]

Just a quick question re the gearbox flush...would like to get opinions on this as my local automatic transmission specialist who I have used for years, is of the opinion that even the slightest bit of glycol contaminating the gearbox will eventually result in the gearbox failing at a later date even if it has been flushed.....are there any thoughts on this?

Sorry for the late reply Vlad......Just got back from an extended Xmas break

Yes is the answer, glycol and water even in small quantities in the gearbox (by small amount I mean say 0.5L as opposed to a few droplets) starts the time bomb. Even if the gearbox is flushed and the contamination source id'd and fixed it's still just a matter of time.

The glycol and/or water reacts with the friction material (which makes up the clutch and brake packs) and the glue which bonds it to the steel backing plates, this results in the friction materials breaking away from the plates with eventual total loss of drive being the end result. It also reacts with the servo seals causing them to shred and break up.

The only variable is the time it takes and this depends on the level of contamination and how much use it gets, it can be a few days for heavy contam. or into months or even a year or so for very light contam.

 

[Vlad]

So in other words buying a W211 from the affected build period could be a game of Russian Roulette, as its either going to still be on a Valeo radiator or even if it has been changed the autobox could still potentially fail at a later date if its just been flushed and not completely replaced.....what a nightmare.

 

[Buggerlugs]

So in other words buying a W211 from the affected build period could be a game of Russian Roulette, as its either going to still be on a Valeo radiator or even if it has been changed the autobox could still potentially fail at a later date if its just been flushed and not completely replaced.....what a nightmare.

That's about the size of it, the only words I would change are "Russian roulette" and "potentially", if the gearbox has been contaminated and flushed, it's "nailed on"......