Any Experience of the Grand Voyager 5th Gen CDI?

[m80]

Sorry not MB, but I'm researching these as a possible replacement, in preference to the Viano.

Pro's are it's similar size to the LWB;
The Stow & Go seat style is very, very convenient to go from 7 seat to van, no more seat removal and storage;
The standard kit in the Ltd is impressive and hard to find in Viano, but possible;
Post 2010 tax is 'K' at £330 p.a;
For a similar comparison in the Viano you pay more, so relatively cheap.
My experience of the Chrysler Gr Cherokee (2003) rust isn't an issue;
FWD is better come winter.

Possible cons are the electrics can be iffy, but a well equipped Viano can be too;
The engine is a Fiat 2.8L (inline traverse 4cyl, to FWD). I would expect from research that the consumption would be marginally less that the 2.1 Vi'. These aren't over powerful or torquey but will map to be better. Married to the Fiat 6 speed auto box I wonder about reliability. The MB 646 is more reliable unit than the 651, and wonder how the Fiat unit might compare.
Many Viano's have been clocked and have a real very high mileage, these don't seem so corrupted. But will they be good for high mileage?

Is the drive lollopy, like the Gr Cherokee?
Apparently they aren't quiet like the Vi' V6, but how is noise compared to the 646?

If still interested the equipment.
Leather seats, electric.
Heated front and rear seats (I expect that applies to 2nd row only.
Memory seat for driver.
Sat Nav, BT, entertainment system with 2 standard roof screens for passengers.
Reverse camera.
Not sure about parking sensors being standard some have rear at least, rears are easy and cheap to fit.
Cruise, I don't see evidence of speed limit control.
ABS, traction control.
Auto lights, don't know about rain sensing wipers.
No DRL's though.
Electric sliding side doors and electric tailgate.


All comments appreciated.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Odd, the Chauffeur company I used to use went exactly the opposite way. Got shot of the Grand voyagers and bought Viano ! That was a few years ago mind. He also had to move from VW Phaetons to MB.

From a passenger point of view the voyager felt less 'van' like than the Viano. The other chauffeur company I use know I always want the S class Merc and not the 2020 Audi A8, I much prefer the ride in the back of the S class to the Audi.

 

[m80]

he Chauffeur company I used to use went exactly the opposite way. Got shot of the Grand voyagers and bought Viano !

Just that possibly the Voyager is less robust then the Viano.
Looking at the V class there are many up for sale at a few years old that are up to and beyond the 200k mileage. Many older Viano's strangely are of similar mileage, interrogate the MOT history and taxi use becomes apparent, so clocked. So they are proven to run, assumed, reliably, for mega miles.
I'm assuming the clockers haven't mastered clocking the V yet.

My usage won't be a severe as taxi's but I wouldn't want it falling to bits after a few 'more ,000 miles. The experience of the Chauffeur company would be useful. But for them continued service support of their vehicles is also more important than it would be to me.

 

[tjamesbo]

The Guy That writes Dealers Diary for Car mechanics rates them but I had the feeling it was RWD Petrol therefore the previous version ? & thirsty , American RWD autos are fairly reliable is the autobox chrysler or Fiat ?

 

[tjamesbo]

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/chrysler/grand-voyager-2008/good/

 

[m80]

Thanks, I hadn't seen the Honest John report, and it is for the 5th Generation.

I hadn't read of the recalls, but other I had read of elsewhere.

Learnings are;
There are reduction in the emission of child killing units from 247 to 222 sometime in 2010. They also improved the 'official' consumption by approx 10% with that and the tax category dropped to K, so from £565 to £330.
By 2014 the Co2 dropped to 207, that doesn't affect tax and the official fuel consumption improves by perhaps a further 5%.

That has me wondering how they achieved this, were they just lazy with their engineering of the map earlier?

There are some minor changes during 2010, and seem to be fairly insignificant. But although I've found cheap examples of pre 2010 the additional annual cost to me represents approx £450, so the later wins.

I can't comment on the auto box, but may research. I expect Chrysler with longer experience of auto's will produce a nicer box than Fiat.

Chrysler are no longer present in the UK. There are some specialist suppliers. I'm not sure how concerned I should be as that may mean limited support or paying higher prices and longer waits if sourcing from the US.
Of course that is associated to the reliability also.

I can't find that the 2.8 CDI unit is fitted elsewhere in the Fiat range. Maybe the engine components can be sourced easily through Fiat??
With the 2.7 MB fitted to the Gr Cherokee, MB were only useful when I had found the correct numbers as applied to the engine as fitted to the ML. Occasionally the components varied a little. This isn't something I could do easily if the same trick were needed with Fiat.

So far the choice remains to be between the Voyager and the Viano. The Voyager is actually a better option if I can overcome my concerns. Although as yet I haven't even seen one in the flesh to be excited or repulsed.

 

[m80]

Auto box looks to be a Chrysler 62TE. It's fussy which ATF is used, but were familiar with that so not an issue.

Also the engine changed from the RA 428 in late 2010 to the A 428, that same engine had a power uprate in 2013.
It was fitted to the Jeep Cherokee and Wrangler, so not unreasonable to consider pre loved spares might be available, in the event.

 

[219]

Also worth looking at VW Sharan ? ( Or Seat Alhambra clone ) .

Top end ones with alacantra interiors meant to be very nice ( but expensive ) .

 

[C43AMG]

When i was involved with the Brunei's they used the Voyagers then the crash report came out, which wasn't great and they switched to Viano's.

 

[gaz_l]

I ended up with a Dodge Grand Caravan as a rental in the States a few years back (as the car I’d booked had a check engine light on and it was all they had). From what I remember, it was pretty hateful. Handled like an ocean liner, and despite the 3.8 V6 petrol it couldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding. As a result I had to clog it everywhere and was rewarded with 12 MPG. Ouch. But these things are bought by people whose only interest is how many kids/dogs/sheets of 8’ x 4’ you can get in, with driving enjoyment a long way down the list of requirements. I was very glad to hand it back at the end of the hire, though..

Cheers,

Gaz

 

[m80]

Thanks for the extra thoughts.
The Seat and VW look to be somewhat smaller.
Their seats when dropped don't look to provide the flat(ish) floor as in the Viano or Gr V', but that could be overcome.

The 8x4 sheet point is relevant, as I'm looking to replace my MPV with an MPV, it'll be expected to do varied tasks.
I'm not sure an 8x4 sheet will go into the Gr V', research so far shows the seat down length to be approx 300mm less than a long Viano. The Viano is 2.5m and do take 8x4 sheets, fairly often for me.

So I'm at the point of wanting to see one up close and get my tape measure out. I'm waiting for a couple of sellers to come back to me to arrange a viewing.

Auto Trader systems seem to divert calls to a messenger service, but I have issue with their systems anyway, just not user friendly to go into your own account.
Traders all seem to be appointment only on Sunday, so it may have to wait till next week.

 

[219]

Thanks for the extra thoughts.
The Seat and VW look to be somewhat smaller.
Their seats when dropped don't look to provide the flat(ish) floor as in the Viano or Gr V', but that could be overcome.

The 8x4 sheet point is relevant, as I'm looking to replace my MPV with an MPV, it'll be expected to do varied tasks.
I'm not sure an 8x4 sheet will go into the Gr V', research so far shows the seat down length to be approx 300mm less than a long Viano. The Viano is 2.5m and do take 8x4 sheets, fairly often for me.

So I'm at the point of wanting to see one up close and get my tape measure out. I'm waiting for a couple of sellers to come back to me to arrange a viewing.

Auto Trader systems seem to divert calls to a messenger service, but I have issue with their systems anyway, just not user friendly to go into your own account.
Traders all seem to be appointment only on Sunday, so it may have to wait till next week.

VW , of course , have the Transporter , which can carry either more people or cargo , and comes in many variants, but they cost more and are more Van like to drive ; I presume from the vehicles you’re looking at you’re trying to keep to smaller , more car like vehicles ?

 

[m80]

VW , of course , have the Transporter , which can carry either more people or cargo , and comes in many variants, but they cost more and are more Van like to drive ; I presume from the vehicles you’re looking at you’re trying to keep to smaller , more car like vehicles ?

The hope was to replace the Vito, with other than Viano.
A sizeable vehicle is needed.
As multi purpose the Vito (and previous Viano)
carried mum in her wheelchair, I've a ramp and wheelchair anchors.
It will be used for carrying dinghy sails and associated kit. Not masses of it but the main sail rolled on to a 4" drain pipe measures 2.7m long. That can pass up the centre though.
When going to the little yacht there is a compacted inflatable, and outboard. Plus the sort of provisions you might expect when camping.
Some years ago I bought a Khyam motordome drive away tent that was excellent when camping. That is compatible with most vanish type motors.
During lockdown I've constructed a fold away bed for the Vito.
This sits at approx 700mm high so storage under is possible. When folded it doubles as a large dining table using the 2 rear captain seats upright.
The seats folded offer support to the bed.

On occasion we carry passengers. While Mrs Me would like me to design for multi numbers of visiting Russians I don't see that as the greatest priority, if ever it would be a rare event.
But hauling the seats out of the Vito (or Viano) can be a pain, as can their storage. The Chrysler looks to nicely deal with that issue, and accommodates enough Russians.

This week has been prioritised to selling the Gr Cherokee, it drove away 2ish this pm, that's beside dropping the diff off the Vito. Parts on order hopefully that'll get rebuilt Friday / Saturday.

I'm hoping later we can view a Chrysler in the flesh, and measure. If I am unable to get standard 8x4 sheets in with seats down the Vito / Viano wins, long or Ex long.

The VW Cara' is similar to the Vi' really, but to my mind less adaptable seats wise and doesn't as far as I see have the possible equipment the Vi' might come with. But finding a Vi' as well equipped as I would like isn't easy.

My present 06 Vito Dualiner is rust free (for now), £140 tax, but a little beat up as an ex property maintenance van.
With steering controls, heated seats (both), front sunroof, oem fr and rr parking sensors, tailgate c/w wash wipe it takes some beating spec wise. And it has the 646 reliability (one hopes).

Then there is the stuff I've added to make it as I like.
The Gr Voyager 'Ltd' has pretty much all of this (not all) as standard, and the stow and go seating is a convenience I haven't seen elsewhere. My experience of Larisa's 10 years with the Gr Cherokee gives some confidence in Chrysler (Jeep same / same), but that has the Merc 2.7 engine.

After a viewing the Chrysler may well be a non contender.

Sorry but you did ask.

 

[m80]

I viewed one, but didn't drive it today.
At a squeeze an 8 x 4 sheet will go in. That is from rear tailgate to front seat base I think 3 or 4 sheets of ply would be ok.
It's a fair bit more marrow than the Vito at its narrowest. 1.21m as compared to 1.43m

All rear seats feel as though they would offer good comfort, all can recline although the rear most seats seem to only recline from the electric control in the luggage area.

I was more impressed with it than anticipated.

Now I would like a 2nd opinion from her that knows best, so we'll go to see another example on Saturday.

 

[219]

If you couldn’t get an extended test drive from a dealer , do any of the rental firms have them on their fleet ?

Found one - this place rent them from Leeds Bradford International Airport - possibly not too far from you - worth renting one for a weekend to try out ?

Chrysler Grand Voyager 7 seater car hire

Hire the 7 seater Chrysler Grand Voyager car rental the next time you need spacious and comfortable transportation for a group of up to seven people

carhirex.com

 

[m80]

If you couldn’t get an extended test drive from a dealer , do any of the rental firms have them on their fleet ?

I would be surprised,
2014 seems to be the last date of UK examples.
And in truth any rental firm would be a bit daft holding these when there is no UK support.

It would have been a good idea though.

Edit.
I am surprised. A quick search and there are 2 down London. Even by the hour.

It certainly deserves some thinking about.

 

[m80]

Thanks for the thoughts on this, it has been a while and only right to update. although I haven't taken any real action.

I've viewed some Gr Voyagers, and taken measurements. They will take 8x4 sheets seats down and their being a camper is also feasible.
Till recently their prices were attractive compared to Viano's. Another plus is that my research shows most Viano's to be ex taxis with corrupted mileage. I haven't found a Voyager 'likely' to be the same.

The result there is that with a Voyager you hopefully get what you pay for. With a Viano that isn't showing mileage of 250k - 350k you are paying for someone else's usage.

Worried about the Fiat(ish) engine of the Voyager isn't daft, but there are a few higher milers and spares seemingly aren't the issue I feared. But it might present some inconvenience, depending.

There are 3 variations of the 5th Gen Voyager. I/we considered the later and more frugal, if with respectable lower miles would be more intelligent as I've become tired of continually working on and diagnosing rattles.
But to contradict that, as Viano's 'real' mileage is most likely to be high should a high mileage genuine Viano come up at the price of a high mileage Viano it might get consideration.

The prices of both have risen in the order of 30 / 40% in a little over 2 weeks though. Waiting for the return of some sanity is a gamble but as folk could be looking for summer alternatives to going abroad it is possible.

Nowt bought, 2 good one's missed, nowt on the horizon, so I've ordered a tow bar and curtains for the Vito. I'll fit those and then sure as these things work the desirable replacement will appear.