Any Goldfish experts

Discussion in 'OT (OFF Topic) Forums' started by BIG Sean, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. BIG Sean

    BIG Sean Active Member

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    All our fish were dead this morning - one Orange Oranda 12months old was happy as larry, one lemon Comet 9months old happy again as happy as larry and a calico coloured Ryukin 6weeks old[we've had it two] could he have brought a disease even though he looked fine??? the other two have been no trouble in the time we've had them - lost two red cap Orandas [the comet was a replacement for the first and the ryukin for the second] previously but assumed these were a little fragile.

    When we bought the Ryukin we also got two apple snails - could this be the problem.

    Tank is 40l and has a filter and two air stones

    Water changed two weeks ago this Sunday.

    Any advice welcome.
     
  2. HR17

    HR17 Active Member

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    I've lost a number of orandas and comets a few years ago - like you not long after introducing something new to my tank. The guys at my local aquatics centre mentioned about water changes - never do a full change, just regular partial changes to maintain good chemical:biological balances. They also said to wash the filters in the dirty water I removed from the tank to keep the bacteria that live in them healthy. Since then, I haven't lost a fish, though I always found orandas and other fancy fish difficult to keep. Comets have always lived happily for years though. The chemical levels in the talk are also critical too - i measure mine weekly with a test kit to ensure I'm not poisoning anything, and check the fish for visible signs of diease when I feed them.
     
  3. Stempies

    Stempies Active Member

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    Could the heater have cracked & electrocuted them??
     
  4. Howard

    Howard MB Club Veteran

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    Hi there,

    I'm an advisor on a fish forum , mainly marine fish , but i have kept goldfish as well.

    To be honest with you ( and people don't like to hear this ) 40L is too small for one fish , let alone a comet which is a fast sleek fish and needs lots of swimming room.

    3 fish in that size tank would create an awful lot of waste ( goldfish are pooing machines ) , what filter are you using ?

    When you say 'water was changed' what do you mean ? , not 100% of the water i hope ?

    Really you need to change no more than 25% of the water once a week , if you change significant amounts of water , you run the risk of the fiter having to go through it's cycle again . Below is a link to the nirogen cycle from the site i advise on , it explains how it all works.

    Fishkeeping - Fishless Tank Cycling and Avoiding New Tank Syndrome - General Guides - Articles

    Before you restock , i would have a think about the size of tank you have , 40L is really only good for small trops ( guppies , neons etc ) , it is too small for goldfish.

    The common myth is that the fish will 'grow to fit the tank' , well , this is partially true , the bodies of the fish grow to fit the tank , but the organs continue growing ( and compressing in hte body cavity ) leading to a slow and horrible death for the fish.

    Sorry to sound like a preacher , but the amount of people who kill their fish , just through not really realising what they need is staggering , and heartbreaking , i get a bit emotional at times on the fish forum :eek:

    To give you an idea , i kept a single comet in a 4foot tank for 22 years before he passed on , and that was cancer of the eye , not old age. A well looked after singletail / comet goldie should go for 25 years . A fancy one ( ryukin , shubunkin ) maybe 12 - 15 ...

    Anything else i can help with , just ask.
     
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  5. eugekav

    eugekav Active Member

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    Thanks

    Hi,What a brilliant post some more good information as many people like me were always confused about the "fish wil grow as big as their tank" myth now busted well done again:thumb:.thanks for your time.

    Euge.
     
  6. OP
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    BIG Sean

    BIG Sean Active Member

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    Thanks Howard, I changed 1/3 of the water-happens to be a bucketful the Sunday before last - I'm not sure but i think either the snails or the ryukin have had some sort of disease - the oranda has been fine for 12 months but on flushing him this morning his cap was all gooey and slimey, the comet just seemed to be much paler than he normally was -had very big black eyes and a reddish streak down each flank but was just very very pale orange this am. The ryukin didn't look any different apart from being dead.

    They weren't that big at all the comet was about 60mm and the oranda similar bit shorter but beefier obviously.

    Can snails bring diseases? These two both seem fine although the fish are all dead

    Could it be just too many animals in too small a space?
     
  7. Howard

    Howard MB Club Veteran

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    Probably as you say , too many fish in too small a tank. The bioload was too much for the filter , and you probably had an ammonia spike.

    Unlikely that the snails will have brought in any diseases that would be communicable to the fish.

    Did you treat the water that you added ? if so , what with ? you need a treatment that removes both chlorines and chloramines.

    The red streaks on the comet ( were there also red streaks on the tail fan ? ) can be a sign of stress due to poor water quality , due to the spike probably.

    Excess mucus production ( gooey and slimy ) again is a sign of poor water quality ( high nitrites and ammonia ) probably from the spike again. The fishes mucous system goes into overdrive to try and protect itself from the ammonia in the water that will be burning its skin and gills.

    You can never rule out a disease 100% , but in this case it seems like the filter has been overloaded , and there has been a spike that has killed the fish.

    I have a friend who has an 800L tank in her lounge , she rehomes fish that have outgrown their tanks ( goldies mainly ) , she has a goldfish called 'Howie' :rolleyes: that is 12 inches long now and 5 deep by 3 wide. He is 10 years old . She also has some fancies ( like you had ) that are the size of a small melon.

    Here is Howie and his girlfriend Ren ...

    [​IMG]

    I'm sorry to hear about your dead fish , i get very attached to my fish , as i'm sure you do. Can i urge you to think again about stock when the time comes , consider going tropical ( actually easier than coldwater / goldies ) and get a shoal of neons / tetras / guppies . Colourful and much less load on the filter.

    When you start again , you will need to re-cycle the filter , don't be tempted with the snake oil 'bio starts' etc , do it as the link says that i posted , a fishless cycle , plot your spikes and then you will know when and if it is safe to add your new fish.

    Consider joining the forum that i posted too, it's full of people who are vey knowledgable and care about the fish.

    If i can help any further , just PM me .
     
  8. OP
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    BIG Sean

    BIG Sean Active Member

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    Thanks howard I'll rethink and maybe just get some small ones - they were to fend off the youngests request for a dog or rabbit.

    what extra is needed for the small tropical fish -do I just need a heater? Or is it fancy lights and such?
     
  9. Howard

    Howard MB Club Veteran

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    Just a heater really .

    I have a 40L tank that i use as my coral farm , and i heat it with a 25w heater , keeps it at a steady 26 deg C so not fortunes to run.

    If you have live plants in the tank ( excellent for oxygenattion ) you may find them to not last quite so long with the increased temps , but that's about it.

    Normal lights will do , swap the tube for a tropical tube ( pinky one ) .

    Shouldn't cost more than about £30 to change over.
     
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  10. OP
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    BIG Sean

    BIG Sean Active Member

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    Coral farm????

    Might just get another couple of small fish and pay them a bit more attention
     
  11. C43AMG

    C43AMG MB Enthusiast

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    Very impressive Howard, your a good lad taking the time to share your expertise.
     
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  12. buccal

    buccal MB Enthusiast

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    Great post Howard, makes me want to get some fish!
     
  13. Howard

    Howard MB Club Veteran

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    I propagate corals to try and slow down the rate that they are taken from the worlds reefs to supply the marine trade. Hopefully one day we will get to a stage where the fishkeeping industry can be supplied solely from tank bred corals.

    [​IMG]

    This is my main tank ....

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Charles Morgan

    Charles Morgan MB Enthusiast

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    Me too!

    Just bought some sardines, gray shrimps and palourdes clams. :)

    I'll get my coat.
     
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  15. eugekav

    eugekav Active Member

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    Fat Fish

    Hi,I have some goldfish and comets one of the comets seems to be eggbound and I am not sure what to do.Thanks for your time:thumb:.

    Euge.
     
  16. Howard

    Howard MB Club Veteran

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    Eggbound ? presume you have some males in there too ?

    She is swollen ? any scales sticking out ?

    Can you get a photo please ?

    What is the tank temperature at the moment, has it raised or lowered in the last few weeks ?

    Comets can get constipated , what are you feeding them ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
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  17. eugekav

    eugekav Active Member

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    fat fish

    Hi,Here is a picture of the fish the other fish seem fine.I am feeding the fish on Tetra Pond Flakes.Thanks for your time:thumb:

    Pictures by eugekav - Photobucket
     
  18. eugekav

    eugekav Active Member

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    more photos than needed

    Hi,Put the album on by mistake:doh:.Will get the hang of it one day:thumb:thanks.

    Euge.
     
  19. Howard

    Howard MB Club Veteran

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    Does she seem distressed at all ? how long has she been like this ?

    Can you see any 'pineconing' of the scales ? can you see what her poo is like ?

    Potentially the warmer weather recently can have triggered the egg production in the fish , but swelling like that can also be a sign of organ failure , known as 'dropsy' , link below.

    Basically , the disease causes the fish problems with osmoregulation ( fulid retention ) , and they swell up.

    Goldfish Dropsy Disease - How to Take Care of a Goldfish

    I have passed your photo onto one of the goldfish advisors on the site , and asked them to take a look. :)

    H
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  20. eugekav

    eugekav Active Member

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    Thanks

    Hi,The fish has been like that since last year and I did not think it would survive the winter.The fish seems as active and as happy as the others three goldfish and two comets.I will post a better photo as soon as i can .The scales look normal to me.thanks for your time:thumb:.

    Euge.
     

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