Any property lawyers / experts?

[fatdazza]

Bit of an odd one:

Had a letter from our mortgage company (Nationwide) saying that due to an "error on their part" they had managed to delete the charge that they hold on our property (on the electronic title deeds). Land Registry will only allow the charge to be re-instated if we agree, and Nationwide have sent us the paperwork from Land Registry for us to sign.

What is to stop us agreeing to this? I am sure we will still have to pay the mortgage, but I would like to know the legal ramifications of this (the mortgage is quite large, so I though it worth looking into).

 

[davidjpowell]

I'm pretty sure that mortgages are repayable on demand - but that very rarely happens.

If they had no security however....

I'd not poke them with a sharp stick to be honest!

ETA - On the basis that they charge for most things I might be tempted to write a letter to the CEO making that point and that a contribution to your costs in the same via hamper or case of wine might be pleasing.

 

[finisterre]

What Mortgage?

 

[Dec]

I'm pretty sure that mortgages are repayable on demand - but that very rarely happens.

If they had no security however....

I'd not poke them with a sharp stick to be honest!

ETA - On the basis that they charge for most things I might be tempted to write a letter to the CEO making that point and that a contribution to your costs in the same via hamper or case of wine might be pleasing.

Agree with the above, tell them you will have to take legal advice so as to protect your own financial interests and that you will have to pass on this additional cost… through no fault of your own… to them, plus an additional fee for your time and effort in the matter.

It would be interesting to see how the react to a reply like that.

Dec

 

[GRAV888]

Agree with the above, tell them you will have to take legal advice so as to protect your own financial interests and that you will have to pass on this additional cost… through no fault of your own… to them, plus an additional fee for your time and effort in the matter.

It would be interesting to see how the react to a reply like that.

Dec

Plus, tell them they have already incurred a £25 charge for that letter

 

[Spin_bowler]

Agree with the above, tell them you will have to take legal advice so as to protect your own financial interests and that you will have to pass on this additional cost… through no fault of your own… to them, plus an additional fee for your time and effort in the matter.

It would be interesting to see how the react to a reply like that.

Dec

Then, when they call you, play them Greensleeves down the phone, give them a list of options to choose from that won't quite match what they actually need and then transfer them to an office in the Philippines.

 

[Palfrem]

Great stuff

The opportunities for payback are almost limitless

 

[rossyl]

Agree with the above, tell them you will have to take legal advice so as to protect your own financial interests and that you will have to pass on this additional cost… through no fault of your own… to them, plus an additional fee for your time and effort in the matter.

It would be interesting to see how the react to a reply like that.

Dec

I would agree with the above.


What would happen if you refuse to pay?

You have enteerd into an agreement with Nationwide, that they will lend you money in return for this you give them security for that loan of money over your home. They, through their fault, no longer have this security.

Dependant on the terms of the mortgage, if you default, or they may at their own decsion, call in the mortgage. Dependant on your finances, you would probably have to sell the house in order to repay the outstanding amount.

Or, they could take action against you to get a charge re-instated under the terms of your mortgage.

You can now (possibly) sell your house without the mortgage needing to be paid off. If that could serve you any benefit?


Ultimately, I doubt you could get out of the mortgage, but you should certainly charge them for the inconvenince you hve been put through and any costs you incur. I would get them to agree to meeting your costs BEFORE you do anything.

However. I am not a property expert, I'd try and find one and see if there were any other options open to you.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

What wouldbe a good result for you?

 

[fatdazza]

What wouldbe a good result for you?

A good result would be no mortgage. I am, however, realistic enough to know that this is an impossibility.

It seems to me to be a bit of a monumental **** up by Nationwide, as they now appear to have a very large unsecured loan.

I have no intention of defaulting on the mortgage, but was wondering if Nationwide have any sanctions they could employ if I refuse to allow their charge to be re-instated.

I loved the suggestion about playing Greensleeves down the phone to them

 

[Troon]

I have no intention of defaulting on the mortgage, but was wondering if Nationwide have any sanctions they could employ if I refuse to allow their charge to be re-instated.

You might find your credit rating takes a tumble, and your loan interest rates go up to standard unsecured loan rates...

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

If I'm honest I suspect you'll gain very little, and it could end up complicating things.

You could give them a call and if you're feeling cheeky suggest that they cover the cost a meal for your inconnvenience. You never know, they may say "of course". They won't want to lose a big mortgage customer so you never know.

 

[Dryce]

I have no intention of defaulting on the mortgage, but was wondering if Nationwide have any sanctions they could employ if I refuse to allow their charge to be re-instated.

It will be in the small print. There will be words relating to the charge over the property as security.

Depending on those words you may find if it is not maintained then the loan can be called in or you may find the words apply only to the initial charge in which case if they terminated it then it's their problem.

Try reading your agreement.

 

[davidjpowell]

Most mortgages can in fact be called in 'On Demand'. If you don't have the cash, the fact that the bank has no security leaves you with the problem regardless.

 

[Stratman]

It seems they've lost the charge on the property, not the mortgage itself. If you don't play ball with them they may well exercise their right to call in the mortgage, and let the facts be known to credit rating agencies.

Good luck with getting a new mortgage

 

[DITTRICH]

It will be in the small print. There will be words relating to the charge over the property as security.

Depending on those words you may find if it is not maintained then the loan can be called in or you may find the words apply only to the initial charge in which case if they terminated it then it's their problem.

Try reading your agreement.

Absolutely +1. I would expect the mortgage agreement to contain a clause about them having a charge on the property until the funds are repaid. No charge, money back please. I do not think there is anything to be gained by being clever - just crap in their crm system saying what a difficult customer you are to deal with.

 

[Dryce]

Most mortgages can in fact be called in 'On Demand'. If you don't have the cash, the fact that the bank has no security leaves you with the problem regardless.

I was rather under the impression that a mortgage was usually a secured term loan. They are therefore cannot arbitrarily called in on a whim - there is an agreed repayment schedule to which all parties have signed up on the agreement.

Violating the conditions set is another matter. And as you say the fact that the bank has no security doesn't remove the liability on the borrower. It

 

[davidjpowell]

I was rather under the impression that a mortgage was usually a secured term loan. They are therefore cannot arbitrarily called in on a whim - there is an agreed repayment schedule to which all parties have signed up on the agreement.

Violating the conditions set is another matter. And as you say the fact that the bank has no security doesn't remove the liability on the borrower. It

You may think that, but I am pretty certain that most are repayable on demand.

I'm pretty sure that it's unusual for them to use the clause though.

 

[artyman]

They could also apply to the court for a charging order over the property. Just try and get some form of recompense perhaps a weekend away

 

[oldcro]

Just sign the paperwork sent to you and post it back.