Anybody with wood burner m/fuel experience?

[MarkJunedd]

Well heres the thing. SWMBO and myself have been doing up our 100 yr old house for the last year and when we redecorated the lounge (after knocking though the dividing wall ) I removed the ancient and deadly looking gas fires to reveal the old hearths that were built with the house.I then boarded over the openings just to have a flat wall running front to back of house. We did for while put a dog basket in the hearths to heat the room with a real fire so i know that the chimneys are open. Now we fancy putting in a wood burner or multi fuel stove and was wondering if there is a minimum length a flue pipes needs to be shoved up the chimney ? Any body know ? Cheers.

 

[Ted]

I would put the flue pipe all the way up as (i believe) the stove may not draw properly without it.
Also, if it is not the full height, you may get the tars & acids on the chimbmey bricks - not good in terms of both corrosion and possible chimney fires.

Having said that, I ran a wood burner for years straight into the chimney without any problems other than occasionally the draw would 'reverse' letting smoke into the room.

That was fun.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Having just had one installed, the flue will need to be lined all the way up. Remember a stove is so much more efficient than an open fire so a flue will not be as warm with a stove, so may not draw as well if not properly done.

Get a Hetas installer round to discuss at an early stage, the regs are not too onerous but there are a number to observe.

 

[Chrishazle]

We recently had our woodburner (professionally) removed to retile the surround. The chap that removed then reinstalled has been fitting stoves for 20+ years. He siad that the area between the flue liner and the chimney at the top should be insulated - don't know the whys and wherefores, but one to ask your installer!

Personal opinion - unless you think you may use some coal, go for a straight woodburner rather than a multifuel. Wood burns best on a bed of wood ash, our current multifuel has an ash collection tray below the grate, wife insists on cleaning it out Grrrrrrrr!!! Straight woodburner does not have the ash pan (we had a straight woodburner in our old house) so it's easier to take some ash out when you need to but still leave a bed for the fire. Cuts down rows with SWMBO!!

 

[del320]

Also consider all cast iron - slower to heat up, slower to cool down, expensive, versus steel - heats up quickly but cools down quickly - much cheaper. Both the same when actually burning. If the flue comes out the back rather than out the top, you can have a hot plate for heating soup etc.

As above, drop a stainless steel liner down the chimney. I think there are additional ventilation requirements over c.5Kw.

 

[Piff]

What he said^

 

[Dieselman]

We recently had our woodburner (professionally) removed to retile the surround. The chap that removed then reinstalled has been fitting stoves for 20+ years. He siad that the area between the flue liner and the chimney at the top should be insulated - don't know the whys and wherefores, but one to ask your installer!

The cold top of the chimney can stop the draw as the gasses cool and become more dense.


I would fit have a stove with a back boiler as well to heat water. If then connected to an underfloor water system you can heat a whole house off a stove.

The only problem with wood burners is having an adequate supply of wood, they do get through quite a bit.

 

[Orwic]

Thinking about this myself. Currently an open fire, and burn wood and coal. There's a back boiler that heats the water, and an extra large hot water tank. I can strongly recommend the back boiler. If the fire's going, never need the immersion heater, and the water's nearly at boiling point.

The original fireplace was a massive affair, with a built in oven and plate warmer, and a fold-down cover to keep the fire in overnight (worked brilliantly). Boiled the kettle directly on the fire. Replaced in the early 70s with something a bit more modern. In retrospect the replacement isn't really as good as the old fashioned model (but the electric oven and kettle is much easier!)


The only drawback is re-making the fire and carrying out the ash. I could run training courses in it...


Orwic

 

[DSM10000]

Our log burner has a central flue but plenty of room on the top for cooking if required.

Insulation of the flue by dropping vermiculite (FlueSupplies.com) around the liner will stop heat soak into the surrounding area and ensure the gases stay hot to give a good draw.

This year has sseen a walnut tree fall in the garden as well as two Willow felled becaise of rot so there is a lot of wood in the barn at the moment.

 

[MarkJunedd]

Thanks for the responses so far, sounds like a full flue is what i need to get. As for the back boiler , then that does sound a very good idea, I'm revamping the kitchen as well and was going to put the electric underfloor heating in before i tiled it, but would not take much to run a couple of pipes into the kitchen. Well i say not much but in reality its a stone floor floor in the lounge and kitchen but only a distance of about 20 feet from the fireplace.

 

[Piff]

Thanks for the responses so far, sounds like a full flue is what i need to get. As for the back boiler , then that does sound a very good idea, I'm revamping the kitchen as well and was going to put the electric underfloor heating in before i tiled it, but would not take much to run a couple of pipes into the kitchen. Well i say not much but in reality its a stone floor floor in the lounge and kitchen but only a distance of about 20 feet from the fireplace.

I believe that back boiler systems for wood burners need to be open vented so you would need header tank in roof providing cold feed & vent pipe over the top.

 

[silver_star]

You don't need to line your chimney if it is sound. IIRC there is no minimum distance "minimum length a flue pipes needs to be shoved up the chimney" but I believe you need 1m of solid flue exiting the stove and the flue needs to be sealed off with a closure plate. For this you can just use mild steel and angle iron.

*Technically* a stove installation in England comes under building regs part J. It is worth a read of the regs at least HERE. For a certified installation, you can either install yourself and have the council inspect or have a HETAS engineer self certify it. Or just install it yourself and keep stum.

There is also a good guide to installation HERE.

There is also a good active section on wood burning on the green living forum.

We lit ours for the first time last night, once they have warmed up they don't half kick out some heat.

 

[silver_star]

You don't need to line your chimney if it is sound. IIRC there is no minimum distance "minimum length a flue pipes needs to be shoved up the chimney" but I believe you need 1m of solid flue exiting the stove and the flue needs to be sealed off with a closure plate. For this you can just use mild steel and angle iron.

*Technically* a stove installation in England comes under building regs part J. It is worth a read of the regs at least HERE. For a certified installation, you can either install yourself and have the council inspect or have a HETAS engineer self certify it. Or just install it yourself and keep stum.

There is also a good guide to installation HERE.

There is also a good active section on wood burning on the green living forum.

We lit ours for the first time last night, once they have warmed up they don't half kick out some heat.

 

[MarkJunedd]

You don't need to line your chimney if it is sound. IIRC there is no minimum distance "minimum length a flue pipes needs to be shoved up the chimney" but I believe you need 1m of solid flue exiting the stove and the flue needs to be sealed off with a closure plate. For this you can just use mild steel and angle iron.

Thanks for that , 1m of pipe is what i have seen supplied with a few burners hence the reason for my original question. ( Nice fireplace btw thats what i hope mine will end up looking like after this weekend)

 

[silver_star]

Thanks, I'm quite pleased with it considering I did it all myself and it was my first ever fireplace You will have to post some pictures of your install when it id done!

Took a lot of hard graft to get it like that before I could sit down and enjoy it though. Here are a couple of "before" photos. The house was a bit of a time warp when we bought it.

 

[MarkJunedd]

The house was a bit of a time warp when we bought it.

Tell me about it !!!!!! We bought ours after the old woman passed away and she had been bedridden for years and was looked after by home helps. Literally nothing had been done in the house for over 40 yrs. The bathroom was adjoining the kitchen (which is against current regs )and was from the dark ages,thats now been moved upstairs, the kitchen was from the 1960's which i've now extended into where the bathroom used to be and replaced everything, the staircase was near vertical and bloody deadly so thats been replaced and much more !! Its been a very busy year and I havent even touched the outside yet !!!!

 

[silver_star]

We have had ours about 14 months now. Only moved into it under 2 months ago as it needed rewiring and gutting. Had a lovely avocado bathroom suite in there.

The only room that was "acceptable" was the kitchen. It looked only a few years old. But the rest of the house as the estate agents put it "in need of modernisation"

The inside is just about finished for now...I will be starting on the outside soon and have a garage etc to build

 

[Charles Morgan]

Renovating a house is great fun until it stops being fun, then it is just grinding.

Lit my first fire in the stove yesterday, it being such a rotten day. It is an Esse (yes I insisted on British) 125 stove, 82% efficient and with a rated output of 5kw. The flue is not enclosed so the heat can circulate very efficiently and is single wall for about 5ft from the stove, double flued thereafter through the ceiling, where it is then boxed in before it rejoins the original chimney up in the loft. The installer indicated that he thought the flue was going to be very efficient, and I might have to throttle it at a later date.

So, first fire is phenomenal, excellent draw, in fact a bit too much, but as the ash builds up it moderates a good bit. However, the glass cracked all the way down the front, which is a bore, probably too hot a fire to start with giving too much stress on the glass and stove. However, for heating it is brilliant. Without any other heat in the house, the sitting room is steaming, the dining room and kitchen next door are super, and upstairs solely by letting the warmth circulate by leaving doors open, the lowest temperature is 18 centigrade. So I would definitely think about installing one with a back boiler, as the heat output even on a small stove is amazing.

This is on a really miserable windy day too - no draughts apparent at all. Good insulation and windows equals a nice cosy home. Lovely.

 

[Ted]

You now need a good single malt, Charles, to fully appreciate the dying embers.
May I recommend Laphroaig?

Oh, and a lot of stoves have a flue damper built in. An art rather than a science, but still very useful.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Not at tea time, Ted. I'll have some Russian Caravan instead, nice and smoky like the Laphroaig (although I prefer my malts with less peat smoke character).