Anyone else got W211 E class auto gearbox problems?

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jgevers said:
Hi Satch,

The manufacturers are not letting the data protocols out, even to their dealers. This is the reason why so many control units are being replaced for no reason, purely because of lack of information, tooling and knowledge.

The version I heard was that Bosch were iffy about car makers releasing key information (possibly the data protocols you refer to) and more importantly a view has been taken by many that the training burden thrown upon the Service staff to bring them up to speed on CANbus would (i) be outside the capabilties of many and (ii) hugely expensive.

Now that must be a problem for the entire motor industry if they have been sold the functional and cost benefits of CANbus without twigging they must investing in a support structure for something vital to the car.
 
It is a already a big problem getting bigger. The manufacturers are probably right in saying that playing around with actual data is too difficult for the average mechanic. This doesn't help the customer though. I suppose it is not in MB's interest to stray from the 'guided diagnostic' model. This way they sell a lot more overpriced parts!
As most dealerships seem to be interested in money only, it will suit them as well. No need for properly trained (expensive) staff and more parts sales.

For us independent garages who try to do a proper job and are actually interested in technology and spend a lot of time and money on knowledge and training, it is good, because we fix cars that dealers can not fix.

For the customer it means more expense, especially if franchised dealersn are used.

regards,

Job
 
jgevers said:
For the customer it means more expense, especially if franchised dealersn are used.
The problem really, as stated is that the stealership will just swap parts until it works again. This can be expensive but in some cases it might actually be cheaper than fault-diagnosis, especially if you are charged for the time taken to find out what's wrong. If the garage replace a part and it doesn't fix it, then replace the next part and it IS fixed then it might have been cheaper than taking all the parts out, cleaning them up, testing them all and then putting them back.
 
glojo said:
I just wonder how much that specialised equipment would cost?

Would you need different specialist equipment for each model i.e. 210, 211 the C-class different models and upgrades. How much would the small garage have to put onto the hourly rate to recover the cost of the equipment. I refer of course to specialist equipment for actually working on the vehicle after the faults have been diagnosed.

Would the garage have to send its mechanics away on courses to keep them updated on all the latest technology? Then I suppose all these courses will have to be paid for.

I don't want to sound negative because specialists garages with ex skilled, clever Mercedes-Benz technicians are a very, very good option, but I just query whether they have the correct equipment to work on the very latest models of this excellent marque CL\SL55 AMG or any other complex model.

Regards,
John

Yes, it is expensive, technicians on average away 2 days per month for training. Yet, despite the added expense, we are profitable (just).

You will find that most towns & cities will have at least 1 garage like mine. Keeping up with technology, investing in special tools and investing in training. Our type of garage is forward thinking, not just from a marketing view (like the franchised dealer) but also on the technical front. And yes, although franchised dealers send a lot of diagnostic work to our type of garages, the manufacturer tries to make our lives more difficult with immobiliser systems etc. but by law the independent garage ahs to be able access the same technical information as the franchised dealer (at a cost).

Of course my view is that your car will be in better hands with a good independent garage providing they have the correct tooling and knowledge.


regards,

Job
 
jgevers said:
Of course my view is that your car will be in better hands with a good independent garage providing they have the correct tooling and knowledge.


regards,

Job

Hi Job,
You certainly sound like someone that takes a great deal of pride and interest in what they do. What a pity you live in a land far, far away :)

Your messages are always very informative and in a language that even I can understand.

I have not come across any similar privately owned establishments down here.

A 2Ib lump hammer is the nearest thing to a diagnostic computer :)

John
 
Shude said:
The problem really, as stated is that the stealership will just swap parts until it works again. This can be expensive but in some cases it might actually be cheaper than fault-diagnosis, especially if you are charged for the time taken to find out what's wrong. If the garage replace a part and it doesn't fix it, then replace the next part and it IS fixed then it might have been cheaper than taking all the parts out, cleaning them up, testing them all and then putting them back.

In a few instances that might be right. However in most cases the systems can be checked without taking parts of the car, by looking at electrical signals coming to or from the various parts.

Deciding whether to test or trial replacement takes experience I suppose.

regards,

Job
 
glojo said:
Hi Job,
You certainly sound like someone that takes a great deal of pride and interest in what they do. What a pity you live in a land far, far away :)

Your messages are always very informative and in a language that even I can understand.

I have not come across any similar privately owned establishments down here.

A 2Ib lump hammer is the nearest thing to a diagnostic computer :)

John

Hi John,

I am sure that there will be good independent garage near you. They might not be a specific MB specialist but a more diagnostic specialist catering for a lot of makes. They will have the software and knowledge of the systems used on MB.

Just try to find out where garages send their diagnostic work. That will be the place to send your car.

regards,

Job
 
jgevers said:
Of course my view is that your car will be in better hands with a good independent garage providing they have the correct tooling and knowledge.

Job

The problem for people with newer cars with warranties is that using an independant garage may give MB an excuse to refuse any warranty claims. Also when selling the car if the service stamps are not genuine MB, buyers are put off. Although legislation to level the field is in place the independents still face massive predjedice. The best option I feel at present is to get the services done at the dealer and any other major work eg brakes, spark plugs - wear and tear items not covered by warranty- done by the specialist independent.

There must be a market for a national franchise made up of quality independents who already specialise in servicing prestige brands. With strict vetting this would ensure consistancy and help build a reputation with the public. This would enable the independents to take on the dealers, who have now pushed up servicing costs to extortionate levels to make up for smaller margins made on new car sales. I think it will soon become imperative for the independants to do this to survive. They should follow the dealers example - shiny floors, comfy seats, free cappachinos pretty receptionists or whatever it takes to get the confidence of the car owner.Presently there is no easy way of the public knowing if the local independant is up to the job and is interested in sorting out their problems properly.

I think its criminal the way Mercedes UK in the last few years has muscled in on its privately owned franchise dealers replacing them with their own operations to control the lucrative servicing market.
However, many of the dealers who were pushed out are now offering expert Mercedes servicing at bargain rates.
 
avoyager said:
The problem for people with newer cars with warranties is that using an independant garage may give MB an excuse to refuse any warranty claims. Also when selling the car if the service stamps are not genuine MB, buyers are put off. Although legislation to level the field is in place the independents still face massive predjedice. The best option I feel at present is to get the services done at the dealer and any other major work eg brakes, spark plugs - wear and tear items not covered by warranty- done by the specialist independent.

There must be a market for a national franchise made up of quality independents who already specialise in servicing prestige brands. With strict vetting this would ensure consistancy and help build a reputation with the public. This would enable the independents to take on the dealers, who have now pushed up servicing costs to extortionate levels to make up for smaller margins made on new car sales. I think it will soon become imperative for the independants to do this to survive. They should follow the dealers example - shiny floors, comfy seats, free cappachinos pretty receptionists or whatever it takes to get the confidence of the car owner.Presently there is no easy way of the public knowing if the local independant is up to the job and is interested in sorting out their problems properly.

I think its criminal the way Mercedes UK in the last few years has muscled in on its privately owned franchise dealers replacing them with their own operations to control the lucrative servicing market.
However, many of the dealers who were pushed out are now offering expert Mercedes servicing at bargain rates.


There is such a group already. Bosch Car Service. The national network of Bosch approved independent garages. They are vetted and checked by Bosch on a regular basis. If you use one of these, you should get decent service. The technical knowledge in these places is very good, especially if the Bosch Car Service was a Bosch Service Agent previously. The old Bosch Service Agent was based on sound technical knowledge, qualifications and proper diagnostic tooling.

It is the Bosch Car Service network that have started doing a lot of lease company car servicing since the block exemption laws changed this year.

I think the car buying public are slowly starting to realise that a service book full of dealer stamps might actually show that the car has not been serviced all that well. A book full of reputable independent garage stamps means that the work has actually been done!

regards,

Job
 
Just like the world in general, people seem to need to know more and more about less and less!

I suspect that most would prefer it if the MB service outlets were more honest about their capabilities. Nobody expects their GP to perform brain surgery or do a heart transplant, that is what Specialists are for.

OK maybe 95% of the time they can cope, but MB and others seem to expect their dealer service staff to blunder on without much hope of dealing with the remaining 5% of really tricky electronic stuff.

I would prefer an honest referral to a Bosch centre!
 
I know its a late response, but avoyager's question on 12/12 " - the one E class I know of was found to have engine coolant in the transmission oil (how does that happen?) which caused the gearbox to be knackered. on the 320CDI at least, the Gearbox is fitted with an ATF cooler the heat exchanger for which is incorperated with the radiator containing the engine coolant - there was a production problem with these hence engine coolant in the gearbox
 
Update

Just thought that I would add my 2p at this late stage. Unfortunately it has come to light over time that there is a problem with the W211 gearbox and althought it is not widespread it does non the less exist. I have just bought a E270 CDI with is exhibiting a slight judder at 30 and 60 mph.

Speaking to one of the Merc dealerships within the Group that I work for highlighted that Mercedes are aware of the problem. Coolant leaks from the gearbox oil cooler radiator into the oil contaminating it. This then affects the transfer box. Rectifying the problem requires a new radiatior and thorough flush of the gearbox. Mine is hopefully being done as a goodwill gesture.
 
Just thought that I would add my 2p at this late stage. Unfortunately it has come to light over time that there is a problem with the W211 gearbox and althought it is not widespread it does non the less exist. I have just bought a E270 CDI with is exhibiting a slight judder at 30 and 60 mph. .
Hi Carlos,
Thanks for the update. Many, may months, or perhaps years ago I posted the actual Mercedes-Benz bulletin that your rewfering to. It effects the early 211's up to approximately the year 2003. The TSB is on the forum somewhere if you want the exact details.

Regards
John
 
Thanks John

Mine is a 03/53 car so they may have bought another batch of dodgy radiators. I am going to do a search for the release so that I can go in armed and dangerous next Wednesday when the car is booked in. My only concern is that they spend a lot of time dropping the gearbox oil pan to then come back with a negative response when using the litmus paper. They confirmed that it would take them 2-3 hours to test the oil in total.

Cheers

Carl
 
Seems like there are many faults with the new E class!!! :eek:
I have a high miler (90K miles) W211 E270 CDI with tiptronic box which is playing up. Its vibrates when accelerating from 30 mph, it jerks badly when pulling away especially when going up steep hills and seems to be changing gear at wrong time and too frequently .
Dealer said they reset the parameters :confused: which didn't seem work.

Hi there,

The vibration is being caused by a faulty Torque Converter (or more precisely the lock-up mechanism in the Torque Converter), which is a common problem on the w211. I had mine replaced about 9 months ago. It's probably a good idea to change the gearbox mount at the same time as it will have been weakened.

I was very intrigued in reading about resetting of the parameters, since I don't think such an option exists. There is an option in the STAR diagnosis system to disable the lock-up mechanism. Get your dealer to perform this test as this will confirm that the problem is with the torque converter.

Good luck.
 
The Valeo problem effects the following cars up to 30.09.03

203 with the 111,112,271,6121990,646 engine
209 ---------112,113,271,612 engine
211----------113,271,628,647,648 engine

The effects are described as Humming,droning/and or jolting during gentle acceleration at engine speeds between 1200 and 2500 RPM

To test use glycol method on the transmission fluid.

Modified rads have a white circle on the oil cooler on the top
 
I know everyone is going to crucify me. but then just get a manual box and you will be laughing. At least if anything goes wrong ,which is unlikely ,they are cheaper to fix and replace.
 
The Valeo problem effects the following cars up to 30.09.03

203 with the 111,112,271,6121990,646 engine
209 ---------112,113,271,612 engine
211----------113,271,628,647,648 engine

The effects are described as Humming,droning/and or jolting during gentle acceleration at engine speeds between 1200 and 2500 RPM

To test use glycol method on the transmission fluid.

Modified rads have a white circle on the oil cooler on the top
:) Page 1 again:
1a.jpg


Recycled,
On the bigger 211 engined E-class there is no manual option.

Regards,
John
 
2007 E280 CDI 51000 miles, bought approved used; now gearbox problem!

hi all.

been trolling the forums to try and do some homework; anyways here is what i seem to have been lumped with...

over the last month, on four different occasions whilst accelerating 'rapidly' from very slow speeds, the auto box has come to change to the next gear but instead has been unable to (i think) and has resulted in shuddering- as if the car is struggling to find the next gear.

if i take my foot off and start over it settles down.

i cant replicate it if i try to even straight after...

happens between 20 and 40 miles an hour...

any ideas?

thanks in advance!
 
What is the mileage on the car? You are past the age of cars which were affected with the glycol contamination.

I would suggest its to do with the gearbox oil level being low. Has it ever had a gearbox service? Its probably around the time for when its due any way.
 

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