Anyone heard of this?

[Suzanne]

Took the car to the stealers yesterday after my little motorway incident the other week
After an hours diagnostics, lol, they found nothing, a furthur 4 hours dismantling the engine and they tell me the pistons have holes in them (or something to that effect) wasnt really paying attention, was kind of recovering from the shock, lol.
Anyway, has anyonhe heard of this and why would this occur??
Im now left with a few options, none of which Im really looking forward to, pay the 5 hours and get my car back complete with wholly pistons, get a new engine or a rebuild!!
Anyway, while I turn my hair grey and knock a few years off my life with a lot of fags and alcohol, Id appreciate if anyone could shed some light on the piston problem

Cheers guys:bannana:

 

[pepe]

What year and model is it , i wouldnt recommend having a rebuild done at a main dealer just because of the cost . if you look in the back of the exchange and mart there are loads of companies who offer exchange reconditioned engines unless its a fairly new car. probably others on here could recommend companies for you.

 

[Steve_Perry]

Originally posted by pepe
What year and model is it...

1988 190e - 116k miles

I've heard of piston rings wearing, that's the seals between the piston and the block but I've never heard of holes in the pistons

S.

 

[Sp!ke]

Piston holing is most often caused by pre-ignition...

Here is a good explanation.

http://www.sacskyranch.com/deton.htm

 

[Suzanne]

Thanks for replying guys!!
I know I shouldnt get it done at the dealer but trouble is theyve already done £500 worth of 'work', theyve got the head off I think and I dont know if it would be any cheaper to get them to just fit it back on and then have another garage go through it all again or if I should do what the guy said and the 500 quids worth theyve already done will be 'forgotten' lol.
So if anyone knows the book time for fitting an engine?? lol.
They havent phoned me back yet though
so am still waiting on the total cost, then Ill have to have a serious think about what Im going to do.

About the holes, read through that link and if Im understanding it properly its caused by using fuel with too low an octane rating??
Dont know what the other owners ran it on but I always tried to put the decent stuff in there, lol, except if I was low and had a tesco near me

 

[Dieselman]

Burning out pistons or valves can be as a result of a few options.

Low Octane fuel causing pinking, ignition too advanced, or most commonly mixture too lean. What colour are the spark plugs, if white the mixture is too lean.

I would ask the dealer for a quote then recover the car to a local engine refurber and have the engine refurbed.

Well actually if it was me I wouldn't have taken it to the dealer at all but would definately recover the car now and do the work myself. In reality it should need new pistons and rings and whilst the head is off do the valve guide seals and possiby guides.

There is no reason why the borese need reboring unless they are worn or scored. The bearings should be ok but whilst the engine is apart it would be a good idea to fit new big ends.

 

[Steve_Perry]

Great find Sp!ke, very informative.

S.

 

[PJH]

Originally posted by Steve_Perry

I've heard of piston rings wearing, that's the seals between the piston and the block but I've never heard of holes in the pistons

S. [/B]

My sister had a holed piston on a P suffix Mk2 Escort.
Don't know of anyone else having this trouble.

 

[Dieselman]

Suzanne

Re read you rold post. A compression test would have revealed all. The smoke was oil smoke, (blue white) and the oil spraying out was excessive blow by.

OOps!

 

[Suzanne]

Dieselman, mercedes ran diagnostics on it and said it didnt show anything??? do you think theyre trying it on? I mean I always thought that the diagnostics thingy does a compression test?
Hmmmmm, Im going to have to ask them a few questions I think, and they STILL havent phoned me back with a price (3 bloody days later)

 

[Ian B Walker]

When I had my 190E comming home from a weekend at a friends i suddenly saw lots of smoke behind my car. I pulled into the service station and called the R.A.C. Out he came and diagnosed a burnt piston. The point I am trying to make is that to diagnose an engine fault doesnt take lots of time and expence. I get the feeling that your dealer is trying to re coup some funds here. Not to be sexist but has he thought, " here is a poor unsuspecting woman who doesnt know naff all and we can earn some ready funds?"

 

[PJH]

Originally posted by Ian B Walker
Not to be sexist but has he thought, " here is a poor unsuspecting woman who doesnt know naff all and we can earn some ready funds?"

Not to be sexist but, at least she can use a keyboard and get advice from others first. Are stealers clever enough to work that out?

 

[Suzanne]

Hmmm yeah thats what Im thinking, because surely something would have shown up in the diagnostics (which they charged me an HOURS labour for).
Now do you think I should argue with them about this point, I know I told them to go ahead and find out what was wrong after they said the diagnostics didnt show anything and I was told that it would be a furthur 4 hours to do this
I just wanted my car sorted
You see I originally thought 'head gasket' and so did others, and if it is holes in the pistons then why is the engine covered in oil??
I dont know what to do, I mean I can argue this with them (dont know if thatll do any good), I could pay them the 5 hours 'labour' that they said they have done (£500 no less!!!!) and get my car back but it will still be buggered, or I can get them to just do what they have to do (a lot of money apparantly).
They still havent called me back with the total cost, its been 5 full days now

BTW, getting rid of the cars not an option, I only got it in june and Im tooo bloody stubborn to accept defeat and throw away the money Ive already spent out on it (£1700 for the car, £500 for the alarm and £60 on a new tyre, lol) Yes, its not exactly logical to throw thousands of pounds at a 15 year old car, but then Im not known for my logical thinking

 

[Brian WH]

Don't forget the strip down is about a quarter of the work to change pistons and rebuild. Then retune to get rid of original problem that caused the pistons to pot.

Get that estimate quick----then decide after you have slept on it and asked us of course.

Good luck.

 

[Ian B Walker]

Originally posted by Suzanne

BTW, getting rid of the cars not an option, I only got it in june and Im tooo bloody stubborn to accept defeat and throw away the money Ive already spent out on it (£1700 for the car, £500 for the alarm and £60 on a new tyre, lol) Yes, its not exactly logical to throw thousands of pounds at a 15 year old car, but then Im not known for my logical thinking

All credit to you. I honestly wish you all the luck and help you can get. I threw pots full of cash at mine too, never regreted it. My wife, brother and son thought I was mental but you are what you drive.

 

[Suzanne]

Brian, yeah they said the work already done will come off the final bill, which is really the only thing stopping mefrom taking it elsewhere Although they are talking about fitting a brand new engine rather than a rebuild
More cost effective apparantly, lol.

As for chucking the money at the car, well all my life Ive just sold my cars when they have gone wrong and its got me nowhere, so its gotta stop and nows a good a time as any and I do LOVE this car

IF they ring me tomorrow, Ill post on here straight away anyway and let you all know what they say, and then you can all tell me if they are talking out of their backsides

 

[Paul Grainger]

My YPVS LC350 had holed pistons. And it was great fun getting them.......

Paul G

 

[Satch]

As with anything mechanical you need to consider how much you need to spend in order to fix the immediate problem, what else might be on the way out and how long you intend to keep it. If this is a true working vehicle as opposed to some form of personal treasure you really like, allow no room for sentiment or sticking with it because of what you have spent in the past. That way madness lies! (And yes, we have all been there to some extent)

Nowdays holed pistons are becoming rarer because of engine management systems being a lot better. Holes are usually caused by excessive heat & pressure, the common culprits being lean fuel/air mixture and advanced ignition timing. Suffer badly enough from both, push the engine hard and the life of a piston can be measured in minutes.

If the pistons are holed the valves have probabaly had a rough time as well, so we are talking renewing both as well as a proper overhaul of the fuel & ignition system. The diagnostics may show nothing, but something as simple as a blockage or an air leak can really screw up the fuel/air mix.

In your position I would be considering an engine refurbishment or exchange rather than changing just the broken bits, but ask yourself those tough questions first. And also this:

Why do Stealerships have big windows?

So they can see you coming

 

[Suzanne]

Right, well spoke to the stealers, and what they suggest is out of the question, they want 5k for an exchange engine and fitting, lmao theyr having a laugh. Anyway, theyve dropped the price on what I already owe em down to 300 quid, so Ill be getting my baby back on monday and am going to get a refurb, most probably from Crewe engines (are they any good?? Ive heard some good things)

In the meantime, I am going to be buying another 190 at the weekend, same year and engine as mine, but with 2 owners and service history! This is just an 'inbetween' car I think, until mines fixed up and then my dads going to buy it.

Anyway, any comments on Crewe engines would be nice

Cheers all.

 

[Sp!ke]

Suzanne wrote....

same year and engine as mine, but with 2 owners and service history!

Sounds like you should save your money on the crewe engine and combine the good bits from both cars to make a really nice one and then flog whats left on ebay.