are mercedes still considered a step up from a bmw??

[mikeouk]

well i decided to change my car and really wanted to go back to a mercedes, but in my price range (upto £10000) my only options where old shape c class or old shape clk, so after much debate and soul searching I went for an e90 bmw 320 diesel m sport, I liked the fact that its a current model and i have 2 friends who both have e90 m sports and rave about them. Nearly 2 weeks in and ive got to say,,,im in love. Its got 90000 miles on it but drives exactly the same as my friends that has only done 25000.
Ive always preferred mercedes over bmw, ive owned both over the years, and always though a mercedes was one cut above a bmw in both prestige and build quality,but after inspecting both marques this time round, i dont think thats the case anymore. I was kind of disappointed to be honest, i just feel that mercedes has lost its way somehow. I think I was hankering after that feeling i got when i bought my 190e in 1992, a car i loved, everything about it felt right, almost like it was part of me, this time round it just didnt happen, abit like meeting up with an old girlfriend you used to think was gorgeous but hasnt aged too well
I understand this is a mercedes forum, so opinion will be biased, but im just interested in how the german marques are perceived, i used to rank them
1.porsche
2.mercedes
3.bmw
4.audi
5.vw
now is say
1.porsche
2.bmw
3.mercedes and audi
4.vw

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I think this debate will rage on for years to come.
It depends on what you want from a motor, I suppose- some like a sportier drive etc and choose Audi or BMW, whereas others want a smoother drive- Mercedes or Jaguar.
Build quality-wise, once again I think it is down to the person. Mercedes had a dip in quality from late-90s, but then again they have always produced the strongest engines that live forever, thats why you will see 30 & 40 year old Mercedes on the road pretty much everyday.
I would call myself in the Audi/BMW demographic, but they don't do anything for me to be honest. To me, Mercedes are still an aspirational thing, be it right or wrong.

 

[The Boss]

on this FORUM, You will get some bias.. but yes Mercs are still up from BMW in almost all areas - The overall feeling of well being in other marques is sometimes often higher, but the surface feel is little to define what is beneath the surface, and i feel that the integrity of mercedes is still stronger than others - namely leading the field on technology and safety - but now the quality is creeping up again!

 

[davidjpowell]

Have to say not sure nowadays, in many ways the quality of cars is less different that it has ever been.

I think what is different is the way cars work. Mercs are more luxury, BMW's a bit harder. A BMW with sports suspension I find very hard work.

The Insignia I have seems to be very well made, solid, no rattles. It will be interesting to see how it holds up.

 

[Blackman]

Regarding what's considered "better", it's merely someone's opinion. The only way you can compare those car makers is by selling figures, but only because the company sold more cars over a certain period it won't make it better, right?

I'm sure Japanese cars are outselling Germans, but I'm sorry, who buys that sh!t?

I've always looked at Mercedes as more of a luxury and "technical-geek" car, while BMW is more about performance. Surely, it has lots of techy stuff inside too, but it's not the same feeling. So again, it's a personal choice.

Audi and VW come 3rd and 4th, I would say, but it doesn't mean they are worse. No way, they are just simpler cars, easier AND cheaper to live with and maintain/look after.

Porsche doesn't fit in here, because it's a completely different class...

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

IMHO they're all much of a muchety muchness. They all have the capability to be the best, but all will choose to compromise when determining their specifications, and all will specify to suit a market they're chasing to give them the greatest chance of success.

I wouldn't hesitate on any of the above, and would go for the one I liked best, rather than which one was best. Mrs D and I tend to prefer MB though.

 

[moonloops]

Oh you'll have the fanboys foaming over this question.

"my near identical consumer product is better than yours..."

 

[st4]

For the money I'd say you did well. No present 204 C classes are in that money yet, but as they are 2yr newer model they are still too dear.

Personally, £10k would have got you an E class 211, which is a cut above the e90.

 

[harry_dhuga]

I don't think Mercedes are a step up from BMW, I think it depends on the car as a comparison e.g. E55 AMG & BMW M5 both these cars do thier thing in their own way.

I think it is not right to say the E55 is more exclusive or a step up in this example.

Both good manufacturers with some cracking cars under their belts.

 

[d w124]

Never had a BMW so I can`t say much,but I do love the E34s though

 

[kwakdonut]

For the money I'd say you did well. No present 204 C classes are in that money yet, but as they are 2yr newer model they are still too dear.

Personally, £10k would have got you an E class 211, which is a cut above the e90.

+1

A nice facelifted 320 CDi with lots of toys - way better than a BMW any day

 

[grober]

Car manufacturing has changed so much that its difficult to answer your question. You have to split the concepts of build quality/reliability from prestige since the two are no longer synonymous. You might also have to consider individual models-the platform they are built on- and the marque name rather than the parent company etc etc

E.g Mercedes Smart v Maybach

Volkswagen Fox v Bugatti

AUDI A3 v Lamborghini

BMW Mini v Rolls Royce


The one thing a marque can't buy is heritage. The mass manufacturers recognise this and have tried to boost their brand names by buying up prestige marques. This often works in the other direction to that intended.

Bentley----- powered by 2 VW engines stuck together doesn't cut it but that's the reality?

However even the heritage thing doesn't always work.

Mercedes has been in the car manufacturing business a long time and through skillfull PR has managed to maintain that heritage image.

Unlike Skoda who have uncannily similar company origins in the Austro-Hungarian empire but who fell from grace after the second world war. Mind you being invaded by Gemans and Russians didn,t help much.


So here's the contradiction.

MERCEDES whose quality definitely slipped for a period in the late 90s/early 2000's as part of the Daimler Chrysler plan for world domination, but somehow managed to maintain their reputation to date by relying heavily on their "heritage" They still play that card to the hilt witness the latest Das Beste oder Nicht campaign

SKODA a company with a similar heritage to Mercedes brought back from oblivion under communist rule by VW technology to produce well built reliable cars that consistently win customer satisfaction surveys They have made an attempt to revive the heritage thing by resurrecting the Laurin-Klement name on their better finished models but with little success. Despite this they are still regarded with derision by many.


Mercedes still wins the prestige stakes -no contest but is Skoda the more honest car?

 

[aka$h]

About a year ago I thought I would replace my 2000/W w210 E320CDI as it was getting on a little. So I bought the last of the E39 models a 530D Sport touring, a 2004/53.

I drove the 5 series a total of 7000 miles and sold it. It was a newer car, looked very nice and took the bends a little better than the Merc, but it came at a cost. The car didnt feel anywhere near as solid as the Merc and as a result was a little tiring to drive.

I still have the w210 and have upgraded the Avantagarde suspension to Brabus Springs and Bilstein B6 dampers. It now out-handles the BMW and has still retained a very good level of comfort, given its on 18" AMG's too.

Would I buy another BMW? NO!!

 

[lxi]

Car manufacturing has changed so much that its difficult to answer your question. You have to split the concepts of build quality/reliability from prestige since the two are no longer synonymous. You might also have to consider individual models-the platform they are built on- and the marque name rather than the parent company etc etc

E.g Mercedes Smart v Maybach

Volkswagen Fox v Bugatti

AUDI A3 v Lamborghini


The one thing a marque can't buy is heritage. The mass manufacturers recognise this and have tried to boost their brand names by buying up prestige marques. This often works in the other direction to that intended.

Bentley----- powered by 2 VW engines stuck together doesn't cut it but that's the reality?

However even the heritage thing doesn't always work.

Mercedes has been in the car manufacturing business a long time and through skillfull PR has managed to maintain that heritage image.

Unlike Skoda who have uncannily similar company origins in the Austro-Hungarian empire but who fell from grace after the second world war. Mind you being invaded by Gemans and Russians didn,t help much.


So here's the contradiction.

MERCEDES whose quality definitely slipped for a period in the late 90s/early 2000's as part of the Daimler Chrysler plan for world domination, but somehow managed to maintain their reputation to date by relying heavily on their "heritage" They still play that card to the hilt witness the latest Das Beste oder Nicht campaign

SKODA a company with a similar heritage to Mercedes brought back from oblivion under communist rule by VW technology to produce well built reliable cars that consistently win customer satisfaction surveys They have made an attempt to revive the heritage thing by resurrecting the Laurin-Klement name on their better finished models but with little success. Despite this they are still regarded with derision by many.


Mercedes still wins the prestige stakes -no contest but is Skoda the more honest car?

Well put - agree with all bar the last sentence. There's some perverse aspects to the eternal "who's best" argument between MB & BMW. Almost invariably those most derisive of BMW have not owned one - if they had, they would not be so committed to the anti BMW mantra that seems to pervade these forums when the question is raised.

One earlier post takes this even further by reference to Japanese cars as "sh!t" - well, head in sand, keep digging my friend.

I actually think Skoda is more the more honest car - as you say, they pulled themselves off one of the lowest rungs on the ladder with huge effort - something MB have never done for the simple reason MB thinks it invented the ladder & seems to have overlooked that there is only one way to go when you are at the top as it might have been at one time, but no way now.

Too many people have views dictated by the badge on the bonnet or grille, rather than the collective to which the badge is bolted!

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Rather presumptious, I think. ^ ^
On a general motoring forum, I'm sure you would get a more balanced opinion, but I think it is naive to imagine that you will get people saying that a BMW is 'better' than a Mercedes. On a Mercedes Forum.

 

[lxi]

Rather presumptious, I think. ^ ^
On a general motoring forum, I'm sure you would get a more balanced opinion, but I think it is naive to imagine that you will get people saying that a BMW is 'better' than a Mercedes. On a Mercedes Forum.

I rest my case

 

[Burger]

If your question is one of prestige then apart from the fact it's a purely subjective question which can only ever have a subjective answer it is also relative to your own circumstances.

30 years ago to own any Mercedes or any Jaguar was out of the reach of most people and therefore they were considered prestigious marques that for many remained a dream for life. However, in order to maximise market share, the resultant profit and continue to grow as a business, they started to make smaller and more economical models so that more people could afford them. While this is great for the business it has the obvious downside of diluting the marques perceived value and therefore of course the resulting prestige. The more you see of something, the less it's perceived value. Prestige after all is a direct result of rarity. Therefore in today's car world, unless talking about marques that still only make 'exclusive' vehicles (Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Bentley to name just a few) prestige comes from the marque AND model, not just the marque alone.

This is borne out in many conversations... The owner of an X-Type or even an XF will always tell you they drive a Jaguar (but conveniently forget to mention the model), whereas the driver of an XJ or XK will proudly declare that they drive an XJ (or XK) but have no need to mention the marque. I'm sure the same is true with all other marques too.

Is this snobbish? Unbelievably! Is it right or fair? Probably not. It is however the reality and so to ask is Mercedes a 'step up' from BMW is actually meaningless in many regards. Is an SL a step up from a Z4? You bet. Likewise a 7 series is a step up from a C180. Only then however is this true to anyone who has an appreciation of cars. In a world where every other car is a Mercedes or BMW, many people won't consider either a prestigious marque or one a step up from the other.

Like I said at the beginning though, the perceived prestige of a whole marque still exists to some extent, but only within your current circumstance and location. If you're on a road where everyone drives a Ford or Vauxhall then almost any Mercedes will be considered a prestigious car. If you're driving around the back of Harrods in the summer months, your Mercedes or any BMW I can think of, unless it's an AMG Black, SLS or SLR, will be nothing. Perhaps in that lays the answer to your question? What is the 'ultimate' car each marque produces? I think Mercedes has BMW beaten on that front.

So, understanding all this and that car snobbery is really a thing of the past, then in my mind at least, it all comes down to this... How much joy does your chosen car give you? Stuff what anyone else thinks and just make sure to drive the car that gives you the most enjoyment you can afford. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Ford? Who really cares?

Regards,

 

[Animal Mother]

When looking for a car recently I was considering many things in order to help me make my decision. The most important one for me was the interior specification. This included:

1. Level of trim (gadgets)
2. Quality of materials
3. Comfort of seats
4. Noise
5. Smell (yes, honestly)
6. Colour (and colours available)
7. General feeling of comfort and quality

I looked at basically every marque available (except for the elite marques) and the conclusion I came to was that Merc was the best. If I had to rank them on the above categories, it would be:

1. Mercedes-Benz (E/S/CLS)
2. Jaguar (S/XJ)
3. Lexus (IS)
4. Alfa Romeo (166)
5. Peugeot (407 Coupe)
7. Audi (A6/A8)
8. VW (Passat CC/Phaeton)
9. BMW (3/3 Coupe/5/7)
10. Skoda (Octavia/Superb)
11. Citroen(C6)
12. Nissan (The big one they do)
13. Ford (Mondeo)
14. Honda (Accord)
15. Vauxhall (Insignia)
16. Mazda (6)
17. Seat (A4 equivelant)

I bought a CLS in the end as little else came close.

 

[bpsorrel]

Having owned BMW, MB, Alfa, Jaguar etc, I feel I can make a fairly balanced view on this. The difference in quality (perceived or real) I found between MB, BMW and Jaguar was not that great. However, my XJ may have been sublime to drive, but was hideously unreliable, My 730d was also sublime to drive but very expensive to run. By comparison my E class has been a joy to own, has (so far!) been reliable and not too costly to run and at the end of the day, the car that does have that extra something....

I'm looking at it's replacement now and despite looking at all the competitors offerings have come back to the realisation that only the MB (CLS in this instance) offers everything I want including that elusive "feel good factor" that the bigger MBs seem to have and I think is missing from the other marques. Just my view...

 

[st4]

Well put - agree with all bar the last sentence. There's some perverse aspects to the eternal "who's best" argument between MB & BMW. Almost invariably those most derisive of BMW have not owned one - if they had, they would not be so committed to the anti BMW mantra that seems to pervade these forums when the question is raised.

One earlier post takes this even further by reference to Japanese cars as "sh!t" - well, head in sand, keep digging my friend.

I actually think Skoda is more the more honest car - as you say, they pulled themselves off one of the lowest rungs on the ladder with huge effort - something MB have never done for the simple reason MB thinks it invented the ladder & seems to have overlooked that there is only one way to go when you are at the top as it might have been at one time, but no way now.

Too many people have views dictated by the badge on the bonnet or grille, rather than the collective to which the badge is bolted!

Yes I had 2 BMWs and they gave me no trouble at all.

In someways there are better made, especially in the body work, but the newer ones are not so nice.

If Skoda made a RWD superb, I'd have one. Lovely big motor.