Are there any sensible economists left in Britain?

finisterre

Active Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
941
Location
Buxton
Car
Vito, Z4, 530i touring
okay I think it is like this


The BoE buys Government Bonds (originally issued by the Treasury) from banks etc.
The 75Bn is backed by the BoE so it is real and spendable
The banks now have a load of cash which makes them chirpy

The banks lend the money to corporations etc because it is spare cash
The corps spend more, invest more in operations and therefore sell more stuff abroad.

  • Deflation is avoided.
  • banks are more profitable,
  • lending is increased,
  • pounds are worth less
  • exports rise
  • imports stay expensive helping the balance of payments.
So all we need now is a bit of confidence and things will get back to normal. It does look like a good idea. As I said, I am not an economist, it is just my understanding of what I have been told.
 

nick mercedes

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
7,106
Location
far far away
Car
Ford Expedition
So all we need now is a bit of confidence and things will get back to normal. It does look like a good idea. As I said, I am not an economist, it is just my understanding of what I have been told.
The debt is the problem.

We've all lived too large for too long.
 

finisterre

Active Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
941
Location
Buxton
Car
Vito, Z4, 530i touring
the debt is definitely a problem in a stagnating economy.

fifteen years of boom would see it off.

I vote for confidence with a fiscally responsible chancellor.
 

NOMONEYBUTAMERC

MB Enthusiast
SUPPORTER
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
1,213
Location
Weston super Mare
Car
BMW X1 . Porsche 968 Boxster
As £200 billion was "created" last year , and had zero impact on the economy, does this not mean than the .1% growth in the past 12 months is actually a minus? , therefore we are not heading for a double dip as we have not come out of the first dip. ??? Confused:confused:. I actually had a quick look at our company sales figures for 2008 against 2011. The worrying factor was the number of accounts that are no longer in business - all from the industrial sector. Amongst the ones that are currently trading there are a number of them which i seriously doubt will hang on much longer unless they see a significant upturn . Look at any industrial estate and think back to what industries have shut up shop in the past 3:wallbash: years. Many have folded due to insufficient lending by the very banks that will now benefit from "benevolent Merv".
 

grober

MB Master
Joined
Jun 22, 2003
Messages
28,376
Location
Perth, Scotland
Car
W204 C200CDI Estate
I agree with you on the politicians. But they're not only to blame are they.

If you think or look back at the MASSIVE house price inflation over the last ten / fifteen years. The writing was on the wall from the 80's. Ok it could and should of been checked somehow but wasn't. Yet still how many of us took on stupid loans, only to buy in to the quick buck gravy train.

Add to the the incessant bloody advertising for idiots to take even more loans from company's like Oceanfinace and MANY others who frankly should be lined up and shot. Then there are the car loans, credit cards, holidays, new kitchens.

It adds up. Sure point the finger and blame the politicians for screwing things up. But we're all to blame for letting them and spending the money in the first place. :rock:
The massive inflation in house prices is principally due to the availability of almost unlimited mortgage finance - and who was responsible for that-- the banks [including ex building societies]. Notice a continuing theme here?
 

Red C220

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 30, 2011
Messages
4,196
Location
Surrey
Car
2015 SL400 : 2017 S6 Avant
the debt is definitely a problem in a stagnating economy.

fifteen years of boom would see it off.

I vote for confidence with a fiscally responsible chancellor.
The problem we have with that solution is the entire financial system on which our banks and businesses operate is based entirely on debt and exponential growth.

The free market eceonomy is itself flawed, it's model is actually boom and bust no matter what politicians tell you. It is quite far from ideal.

It is however better than any other alternative, such as communism, or a capitalist dictatorship that now exists in China (which will itself become it's own enourmous bubble).

If debt and credit lines were tightened up even further we would eventually end up in a depression worse than the Wall Strret Crash of 1929.

There is no quick fix, we've just reach the bottom, or close to the bottom of the bust cycle, we all have to ride it out.

Ironically, the best chance we have of operating out of this is to throw more money at it, America tried the belt tightening route and they;ve now put themselves into a worse position than they were.

When I shut my business in Summer it was a strange feeling, there were no creidt lines available, however even if there were I'm not entirely sure what I would have done with it. I'd lost so many customers (closing) that even if I'd filled my warehouse I'd have had so few customers buying that it would have been a zero sum game.

Dig in, look after number one and wait for it all to blow over. probably a decade in my view.
 

janner

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
2,816
Car
E320 Turbo Technics
The massive inflation in house prices is principally due to the availability of almost unlimited mortgage finance - and who was responsible for that-- the banks [including ex building societies]. Notice a continuing theme here?
Just because someone offers you a loan doesn't mean you're obliged to use it as a down payment on five off-plan apartments in Bulgaria in the hope of making a quick buck.
 

tommy2

Active Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2010
Messages
60
the debt is definitely a problem in a stagnating economy.

fifteen years of boom would see it off.

I vote for confidence with a fiscally responsible chancellor.

Ah Yes, "fifteen years of boom", I think we have just the man, we have not seen hide nor hair of him since last May, but I do think he is available, and he does have a recent track record of "thirteen years of boom".
 
OP
OP
davethemus

davethemus

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
570
Location
glasgow
Car
mercedes c280 1999
The problem we have with that solution is the entire financial system on which our banks and businesses operate is based entirely on debt and exponential growth.

The free market eceonomy is itself flawed, it's model is actually boom and bust no matter what politicians tell you. It is quite far from ideal.

It is however better than any other alternative, such as communism, or a capitalist dictatorship that now exists in China (which will itself become it's own enourmous bubble).

If debt and credit lines were tightened up even further we would eventually end up in a depression worse than the Wall Strret Crash of 1929.

There is no quick fix, we've just reach the bottom, or close to the bottom of the bust cycle, we all have to ride it out.

Ironically, the best chance we have of operating out of this is to throw more money at it, America tried the belt tightening route and they;ve now put themselves into a worse position than they were.

When I shut my business in Summer it was a strange feeling, there were no creidt lines available, however even if there were I'm not entirely sure what I would have done with it. I'd lost so many customers (closing) that even if I'd filled my warehouse I'd have had so few customers buying that it would have been a zero sum game.

Dig in, look after number one and wait for it all to blow over. probably a decade in my view.

you're right the free market is a cycle of boom and bust, however, what has happened here is the politicians and the speculators have stopped the cycle at bust, they haven't allowed the leviathans to go bust, thus creating new space for up and coming business'.

we don't have a free market any more, it began to be eroded by thatcher and reagan when the set about repealing glass-steagall and blair put finished it off when he went back on his manifesto to nationalise the banks

what we have is a capitalist dictatorship, crony capitalism.
 

clever dicky

Active Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2010
Messages
421
Car
Jag
As a side note, i thought it some relevance to mention that i spotted the other useless fat turd 'Lord' -huh! Prescott in the crowd on strictly dancing last night.No remorse for what he and his lot did :(
Laughing and smiling without a care in the world. Nice to see some one like that enjoying life.
Talk about blatent in yer face couldn't give a tozz.

(by the way i dont normally watch it, it was on at my girlfriens)
 

Dryce

MB Enthusiast
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
7,816
Car
..
you're right the free market is a cycle of boom and bust, however, what has happened here is the politicians and the speculators have stopped the cycle at bust, they haven't allowed the leviathans to go bust, thus creating new space for up and coming business'.
Public voted in the politicians and took the loans as well.

we don't have a free market any more, it began to be eroded by thatcher and reagan when the set about repealing glass-steagall and blair put finished it off when he went back on his manifesto to nationalise the banks
I don't recall Blair having having a manifesto to nationalise the banks. Even old Labour didn't go after the banks.

And it's a bit odd that Thatcher could repeal US legislation.

what we have is a capitalist dictatorship
What we have is what the public vote for. A good chunk *still* voted for Gordon. Duhhhhhh.

crony capitalism.
Indeed. And worse a culture where gross failure is rewarded.
 
OP
OP
davethemus

davethemus

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
570
Location
glasgow
Car
mercedes c280 1999
Public voted in the politicians and took the loans as well.

idiots. but we won't be out of this until the insolvent companies go to the wall, take away QE in the uk and the us and the financial terrorists will fall like a house of cards.



I don't recall Blair having having a manifesto to nationalise the banks. Even old Labour didn't go after the banks.

i stand corrected.

And it's a bit odd that Thatcher could repeal US legislation.

you're being extra obtuse if you don't recognise the financial system we have today is reegan and thatchers love child

What we have is what the public vote for. A good chunk *still* voted for Gordon. Duhhhhhh.

yes they did, only because they hate the tories so very much, however we vote for the politicians then the politicians answer to the financial overlords, moodys the imf or the ecb



Indeed. And worse a culture where gross failure is rewarded.
dave
 

Dryce

MB Enthusiast
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
7,816
Car
..
yes they did, only because they hate the tories so very much, however we vote for the politicians then the politicians answer to the financial overlords, moodys the imf or the ecb
No. The public get the blame.

If we're all generally so stupid to vote for party candidates without thinking about *who* we are voting for then we get exactly the mess we ..... wait for it ......... VOTED FOR.

There are far too many people who would vote for a monkey if it wears the appropriate party ribbon.

Net result. Same old same old.

And yet collectively we all have it within our means to clean out the shop.
 
OP
OP
davethemus

davethemus

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
570
Location
glasgow
Car
mercedes c280 1999
No. The public get the blame.

If we're all generally so stupid to vote for party candidates without thinking about *who* we are voting for then we get exactly the mess we ..... wait for it ......... VOTED FOR.

There are far too many people who would vote for a monkey if it wears the appropriate party ribbon.

Net result. Same old same old.

And yet collectively we all have it within our means to clean out the shop.

dryce, i'm not excusing the morons of this country, i'm a labour supporter but at the last general election i voted lib dem :):):):):):):):)() because i believed nick clegg in the televised debates and i'd been a fan of vince cable for a while. i felt betrayed for a long time. but looking around politicians who are prominent and not willing to fall in line behind there leader are few and far between, ken clarke, boris, charles kennedy and sadly i can't think of any in labour, maybe ken livingstone actually. we need to move away from party politics and try and have more independents.
 

Dryce

MB Enthusiast
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
7,816
Car
..
i voted lib dem :):):):):):):):)() because i believed nick clegg in the televised debates and i'd been a fan of vince cable for a while.
The traditional luxury of the LD middle ground is that you can be vocally moral with no price to pay.

The latter part of that got rather messed up by circumstances.

As regards the :( I would hold fire. Given the outcome of the last election the LDs were either going to have to pay that price and compromise or mess the country up. Rock and hard place.

The unfairest outcome, I think, is that they end up being the major casualties in the next election. Moreover the more likely that appears to be the outcome the less influence they will have as the next election nears.
 

nick mercedes

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
7,106
Location
far far away
Car
Ford Expedition
"The dystopian vision of the future sees Britain displaying many of the traits of a developing country. Here's what a typical developing country looks like. It is governed by an elite and there is a gulf between rich and poor. The elite extracts economic rents from the rest of the population, then salts them away in tax havens. Developing economies often rely heavily on one commodity, which crowds out activity in other sectors. To the extent that they have an industrial base, it is as an assembly plant for foreign-owned transnational corporations. The country tends to be deficient in physical infrastructure and human capital. All too often the best brains leave the country.Now consider Britain. The country is dominated by the City, which exerts an extraordinary amount of political power. There is a widening gap between rich and poor. The rich find ingenious ways to avoid paying taxes. Large parts of the country are dependent on the public sector, while the private sector is increasingly dominated by financial services. Industry makes up a smaller and smaller part of the economy and not one world-class manufacturing firm has been developed from scratch since the second world war. Firms complain they can't find skilled labour. The infrastructure is a joke – witness the lack of snowploughs to keep Heathrow open during last winter's snow. This is not an economy that is going places: it is going south."

UK economy needs more than quantitative easing to recover | Business | The Guardian
 

balge

Active Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
827
Location
Central England
Car
Mercedes-Benz W124
Welcome to the third world.

Had an itinerant pushing a shopping trolley round our street this morning going through peoples bins - and gardens - 'collecting' stuff.

Funny, the G not equating the state of the economy with 13 years of NuLaba government...
 
OP
OP
davethemus

davethemus

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
570
Location
glasgow
Car
mercedes c280 1999
Welcome to the third world.

Had an itinerant pushing a shopping trolley round our street this morning going through peoples bins - and gardens - 'collecting' stuff.

Funny, the G not equating the state of the economy with 13 years of NuLaba government...
don't get me started on new labour
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top Bottom