Are these springs Broken or corroded ? (MOT failure '04 W211)

[pmcgsmurf]

Could someone in the know please let me know if these failed an MOT (only one per vehicle, we have 2 cars the same) because they are broke or rusty?

I have no idea what a good srping looks like but would like to know for sure before I next speak to the dealer.

 

[BlackC55]

They are broken.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

They are broken.

Many thanks.

 

[verysideways]

Looks like they both broke at around the same place - must be something to do with the design of the spring seat i guess.

 

[qwiksand]

W211 Coil Springs

Gentlemen,

Some of you are being way too soft on MB. The E-Class is MB's flagship product. Up until the W211 spring failures on the E were few and far between and at extreme age/mileage which is acceptable.( It's also worth noting that W211 has way less weight at the front than the equivalent W210 due to use of Aluminium and light weight alloys and plastics at the front end so should be less stressed.) These failures are unacceptable and indicative of poor quality design and/or manufacture. There are plenty of examples of early life failure and on a Merc it just should not happen!

Looking at available photographs they fail in the same place i.e. a point of weakness either designed or manufactured in. Have you considered the potential impact of a 70mph failure? On an Avantgarde model with the lowered suspension if the wheel is in a turned position it will hit the inside of the wheel arch and could damage the wing or even possibly spin the car off the road.


This is not a trivial problem and MB should not be permitted to get away with this. My wife drives my old W210 now approaching 10 years old never had a spring fail. Built in the good old days before Merc had parts made in the cheapest way possible.

A premium priced product should have premium build characteristics .. no cost/corner cutting.

Cheers

 

[219]

The E-Class is MB's flagship product.

Erm - NO : The S Class is the 'Flagship Product' , unless you count the now defunkt Maybach .

I also disagree with the rest of the above post : spring failure has never been uncommon on any model and can equally happen to new or old cars ; this is valid for lots of makes besides Mercedes .

I've replaced springs on lots of cars , newer and older , of different makes .

Sometimes it is caused by shock ; sometimes it can be brought on by temperature extremes ; occasionally by manufacturing defects or due to abuse such as overloading or rough handling ..

 

[Aoraki]

. Have you considered the potential impact of a 70mph failure? On an Avantgarde model with the lowered suspension if the wheel is in a turned position it will hit the inside of the wheel arch and could damage the wing or even possibly spin the car off the road.

Don't think you could get much lock on at 70mph , and then I don't think a wing would manage to spin you off the road.

How long do you think that a spring should last? There's losts of variables to consider, speed, road conditions, speed humps, vehicle loading etc.

 

[NormanC]

Interesting that both springs appear to have broken in an identical place. Seems to suggest a design fault.

Also, it doesn't seem as if very much has broken off (or am I misjudging the original length) meaning that there would be little change in ride height. Whilst obviously a safety issue I'm not sure that it would throw you off into the countryside.

I had a similar breakage in my Celica GT4 and only found it due to a knocking noise. The loss of ride height was only about 8mm.

 

[219]

I've seen them go on W115 , W123 , W201 and W124 , besides various Volkswagens and others - they usually seem to go at one end or the other - seldom in the middle . Most of the time there is no marked reduction in ride height .

W 210's on the other hand have a known issue with front spring perches where the three tiny spot welds often let go !

 

[Will]

Without wanting to exaggerate the situation, it's probably fair to say that all things being equal, there seems to be more spring failures on the W211s than perhaps there used to be on the older models?

Whilst spring failure in itself isn't all that unusual (yep, heard about it on W201/124 and older MBs, have experienced it once on another car myself) I would bet money that more W211s that are relatively newer and lower mileage are snapping springs with far more regularity than these other models.

I can recall several threads and posts on this over the last couple of years on this forum alone, you don't see anywhere near as many for springs snapping on say W202/208/210/129 etc.

Will

 

[Gareth]

my parent's Citroen C3 recently had the same with both front springs, its an 03 with around 30k miles.

 

[corned]

I think it's fair to say that the 211 does seem more prone to this than other MB models.

However, springs go all the time on all sorts of models and all sorts of manufacturers. Blame it on living (and driving) in a third world country. If there were no potholes or speed bumps, the problem would be much less than it is.

Having experienced failure on the 211, and on my old Pug 406, I would go for the 211 every time. At least the car is still moveable, plus the spring doesn't cause collateral damage. It does on the Pug - both my fronts, when they failed, shot down the strut taking all the brake line fixings with them.

Both the springs in the photos at the top of this thread have gone in exactly the same place as they all seem to do - i.e. where the last coil (which is smaller in diameter) widens out into the main part of the spring.

I believe the spring locating cup at the bottom grinds away the coating and the rot can then set in. Certainly looks to be the case here.

Before someone bites - reference to a third world country above was aimed at the UK as a whole - and not a slur on Scotland!

 

[BlackC55]

Without wanting to exaggerate the situation, it's probably fair to say that all things being equal, there seems to be more spring failures on the W211s than perhaps there used to be on the older models?

Whilst spring failure in itself isn't all that unusual (yep, heard about it on W201/124 and older MBs, have experienced it once on another car myself) I would bet money that more W211s that are relatively newer and lower mileage are snapping springs with far more regularity than these other models.

I can recall several threads and posts on this over the last couple of years on this forum alone, you don't see anywhere near as many for springs snapping on say W202/208/210/129 etc.

Will

At PCS we do more 203 springs than any other car. They are by far the worst.

 

[219]

Without wanting to exaggerate the situation, it's probably fair to say that all things being equal, there seems to be more spring failures on the W211s than perhaps there used to be on the older models?

Whilst spring failure in itself isn't all that unusual (yep, heard about it on W201/124 and older MBs, have experienced it once on another car myself) I would bet money that more W211s that are relatively newer and lower mileage are snapping springs with far more regularity than these other models.

I can recall several threads and posts on this over the last couple of years on this forum alone, you don't see anywhere near as many for springs snapping on say W202/208/210/129 etc.

Will

I wonder if it is anything to do with the prevalence of increasingly low profile tyres absorbing less of the road shocks than older tyres and transmitting them through to the springs ?

All of the above examples listed above by myself were on cars I or close family members have owned , and I know anecdotally that these are far from uncommon .

 

[johnsco]

Springs are now made in different way from how they used to be.
It's all about cost.
The residual stress left in modern springs causes stress corrosion and the type of failure in the photos.
There was a recent thread on here on this subject.
I think it was Number-Cruncher who provided a whole load of good information on the subject.
Yes - Springs have always failed from time to time due to fatigue and fracture.
Expect more of it with modern springs.

Johnsco
Inspection Engineer

 

[pmcgsmurf]

It's certainly my opinion that both these springs having come from exactly the same model of car, bought at the same time with identical specifications but with different mileage and driving conditions have faulty designed springs.

That's just my opinion as I'm sure MB did not mean for the coating to come off in the same place and allow the spring to rot and then fail.

I'm a lot easier with it now though than when they first told me I'd need to pay £270 labour, £110 for 2 springs + £4.20 for shims and then the VAT on top.

Still better the devil you know perhaps.

 

[G-Force]

I wonder if it is anything to do with the prevalence of increasingly low profile tyres absorbing less of the road shocks than older tyres and transmitting them through to the springs ?

Regarding above...my mates 55 plate W211 broke its front springs with 56000 miles on the clock!!!!! the car has the 16" wheels with the 55 profile tyre...this happened last year.

 

[Rory]

Looks like they both broke at around the same place - must be something to do with the design of the spring seat i guess.

Different car, but both rear coil springs broke in the same place as those in the picture on my wife's Renault Clio. It was picked up at the car's 4yr MOT in 2002.

As it was a 1998 car it only came with 1 year warranty and the dealer service advisor (who now, no doubt deliberately to annoy me, works for MB) laughed at the suggestion Renault would pay. Nevertheless I called them and 15mins later the dealer called back to say Renault would pay 100%.

 

[Roger Jones]

Frequently Asked Questions | Honest John

 

[grober]

Yes its due to stress corrosion fractures. The coating of the spring is eventually damaged due to road grit---- impact damage or fretting against the spring seat. This starts corrosion on the spring surface which acts as a source for micro surface cracking. Because during the springs manufacture it was not heated treated to relieve residual stress these micro cracks act as "focus" for this internal stress causing large cracks to develop-leading to eventual failure perhaps as a result of a high loading from speed bumps or potholes. You could say the seeds of failure are already sown in these springs.They just just need the right conditions to emerge. And YES they can be heat treated /annealed after manufacture to counteract this but that costs money!