Arise Sir WIGGO.

[Clkrichard]

Neatly deflected flanai1 ..... Are you in politics ?
However ...... Who exactly did Margaret Thatcher kill ?
I will say one thing - isnt it great that we live in a country where we can openly have this sort of debate ?

 

[Dryce]

Do you actually know what those 'demands' were or are you the usual blind 'crush the unions at all costs and ask questions later'?

If you really knew what you were on about, you'd know that the NUM leadership had to temper the feelings of the miners and not the other way round.

It's clear to see that you know very little of what actually happened and how the strike unfolded, acquiring your 'facts' from the Daily Wail or Thatchers personal mouthpiece The Sun no doubt.

We have visited this ground before.

I was in the midst of it in that I actually worked for a major engineering company that was dependent on the NCB for the majority of its business. That company ceased to be. So not just miners losing their pay during the strike - and later losing their jobs - but various tiers.

I have no respect for the NUM leadership that leveraged this situation. I'm well aware of what was going on. I'm even better aware of how the NUM screwed over their membership by not understanding how the power generation landscape had changed.

I'm not sentimental about any of it. The coal industry needed reform.

Should we still have a coal industry? Yes. I think we should. But not on the terms the NUM was trying to dictate to the industry, government, and taxpayer.

And finally it's not as if the UK was alone in this transition. France doesn't have anything left of its coal industry either.

 

[trapperjohn]

I will say one thing - isnt it great that we live in a country where we can openly have this sort of debate ?

So true and I'm glad it has not been "closed"

Also to see some industries working in true Partnership now is a joy to behold.

 

[Dryce]

How would one know if there is post waiting to be collected at the PO ?
Would the postman put a card through the letterbox to say so ?

Email / SMS.

I'm not being flippant either.

 

[Palfrem]

I suspect that this thread is now living on borrowed time.

I think I may to be to blame. Sorry chaps.

 

[trapperjohn]

I think I may to be to blame. Sorry chaps.

I hope it gets to run.

 

[Clkrichard]

I will bow out of this thread as it seems to have run its course but as far as I know Margaret Thatcher didnt kill anyone and didnt personally sink the Belgrano.
You can lay at the door of the incumbent PM every death related to this country whether it be suicides or troops in Afghanistan or even deaths on our roads but you wont persuade me to agree that taking responsibility and being responsible are one and the same thing.
Happy New Year

 

[Palfrem]

Am I alone is thinking that in the not too distant future, when oil & gas are but a memory, coal will once again be being mined in the UK?

 

[MOCAŠ]

I will bow out of this thread as it seems to have run its course but as far as I know Margaret Thatcher didnt kill anyone and didnt personally sink the Belgrano.

Indeed. You might just as easily blame the Armed Forces for, erm, carrying out orders. But where would we be if they didn't? And I seem to recall that back towards the beginning of this thread, the Armed Forces were being touted as one of the few groups that ought to receive honours.

 

[trapperjohn]

No.

Edit. Bugger too old and too slow. That was my reply to Palfrem.

 

[Harrythedog]

Thats a what not a who ! My question stands

Her policies brought nothing but despair and a feeling of hopelessness to thousands of families resulting in a few taking their own life. I'll never forget one occasion I was held up as the police had shut the road whilst they removed a body swinging from a bridge, the resultant story was later in the local press and the poor soul's circumstances were heart breaking. Unfortunately he wasn't the only one in those times.

 

[Dryce]

Am I alone is thinking that in the not too distant future, when oil & gas are but a memory, coal will once again be being mined in the UK?

If it is then it will be very automated. There will be very very few people employed underground if it's deep mined.

Even in the early eighties the engineering being used in the UK mines was evolving and some of the stuff (eg. electronics + hydraulics) was very clever in its own right.

 

[Dryce]

Her policies brought nothing but despair and a feeling of hopelessness to thousands of families resulting in a few taking their own life.

The country was not in a good state at the end of the seventies. Weak governments over a decade had failed to grasp the problems properly until things were reaching a crisis.

So I don't think a single government can be blamed in isolation. The real problems are as much down to those apparently ever so nice Messrs Heath, Wilson. and Callaghan as Mrs Thatcher.

I suspect that in a 100 years time anybody looking back at today's government will compare the way they have dealt with the situation they have inherited and the one that Thatcher inherited - and the more objective analysts will not favour the current government.

 

[Scott_F]

Thats the problem its not a public service its a business and should be run like one. Theres no need for it to be a public service with the majority of the population having access to electronic communication its just not necesscary.

And for those that don't have access ? And for all those people who need access to delivered mail ? And for those on pensions, benefits and low incomes for whom the extra costs that you advocate would be a real burden ? And for those people who you won't be happy to collect the mail for ??

In case you hadn't noticed, the track record of the private sector in delivering what, for most people, are essential services to our homes isn't exactly great. We get fleeced by the gas and electricity companies and yet you advocate more of the same from private mail companies. You claim to despise Thatcher yet your proposals, whilst based on pure Thatcherite ethos, are more extreme than any privatisation that she oversaw. Not only that, they contain the selfish, I'm-alright-Jack attitude that epitomised her thinking.

Theres no need for these outdated institutions anymore this is the 21st century after all

Translation: you personally hardly use the service so b*llocks to it.

 

[Scott_F]

Am I alone is thinking that in the not too distant future, when oil & gas are but a memory, coal will once again be being mined in the UK?

In 10, 20 or 100 years King Coal will definitely be back.

 

[Harrythedog]

The country was not in a good state at the end of the seventies. Weak governments over a decade had failed to grasp the problems properly until things were reaching a crisis.

Can't disagree with you there however to single out a certain section of society and raze it to the ground then sell off the country's main assets to the benefit of the few. We have no major industries left, most of the elec/gas suppliers are foreign owned and we have some brilliant engineers that have to go abroad for their ideas to work so you don't need a 100 years of hindsight to see who's feet the blames lies.

 

[flango]

Neatly deflected flanai1 ..... Are you in politics ? Sort of I work with enough governments
However ...... Who exactly did Margaret Thatcher kill ? see post #111
I will say one thing - isnt it great that we live in a country where we can openly have this sort of debate ?I totally agree sir yes it is

My only claim to fame as to being asscociated with politics is I went to the same school as William Hague, before I realised the errors of my ways and left

 

[Dryce]

We have no major industries left, most of the elec/gas suppliers are foreign owned

I think people ought to question the private sector in this country as to why this is the case.

Governments can only do so much.

And it's not just large companies and organisations that are foreign owned.

Successful small companies that I've worked for in the last 30 years that have been successful and bought over have been acquired by US companies.

One might ask with so much finance supposedly flowing through the UK that so little UK finance seems to head towards UK companies and industry assets.

 

[Harrythedog]

I think people ought to question the private sector in this country as to why this is the case.

Governments can only do so much.

And it's not just large companies and organisations that are foreign owned.

Successful small companies that I've worked for in the last 30 years that have been successful and bought over have been acquired by US companies.

One might ask with so much finance supposedly flowing through the UK that so little UK finance seems to head towards UK companies and industry assets.

But we're talking about a Government that not only did nothing to help but destroyed some industries

 

[flango]

Am I alone is thinking that in the not too distant future, when oil & gas are but a memory, coal will once again be being mined in the UK?

I never realised we had stopped?

Translation: you personally hardly use the service so b*llocks to it.

Not true at all bit of a sweeping statement seeing as you don't know me

In 10, 20 or 100 years King Coal will definitely be back.

I wish I were around to see it as all the virgin reserves lie under very sensitive or affluent areas and I'd love to see the politicians deal with the NIMBY'S on that one. We can't go back into any of the closed mines as yet again the orders from MT were to close them in such a way that they could never be safely worked or developed again. This also caused a lot of environmental damage from acid mine drainage and left a legacy we now have to deal with.

The only chance we have of an fairly immediate restart ( 2 - 5 years) are the coalfields that were shut down correctly like the Selby field which incidentally was closed down under private ownership to far more stringent standards than that when they were in public ownership. There are 14 seams in the Selby field only one of them was ever worked in earnest and another in a very limited amount so plenty left there, also in the North East where most of the reserves lay under the North Sea so don't affect anyone above them.

Most of the mining technology still comes from the UK and most suppliers into the industry have major facilities here. I think the future for coal in the UK though lies in future technologies such as in seam gasification rather than traditional mining to feed power stations.