ArrggghhhhhhhhhHH!

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Will

Hardcore MB Enthusiast
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Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
13,872
Location
Surrey
Car
GL63 AMG / 190E 2.5-16 / Porsche 911
I have recently sold my Lexus LS400 that was in the classified.

A 'gentleman' came and saw the car yesterday afternoon.

He did the usual checks etc, I took him for a test drive and then he drove it for a while.

Totally satisfied with the car, and was extremely keen to buy it. He agreed to pay the asking price, and I threw in the road tax as a gesture of 'good will' in the deal.

Anyway, before he came to see the car, I had explained that it was advertised on an auction (that finished on sunday). He explained that he was due to go on a holiday for a just over a week the following day, and as such could leave a deposit, and pay the balance upon collection.

So we had agreed a deal, and payment terms (I have draughted two copies of a receipt to detail conditions of sale, eg non-refundable cheque received as deposit, subject to clearance and payment terms (ie, car to be collected before xx date etc)

All was fine, deal was shaken upon, and both of us have an identical copy of the receipt, signed by both parties. He left me a 'deposit' of £500, payed via cheque. I didn't see this as a particular problem, as the cheque should have cleared before the collection (in a little over a week).

Nice easy transaction, both parties happy, and a good sounding home (he was an retired ex-toyota mechanic who had always wanted one blah blah blah)

Receive a telephone call this morning, and he informs me that he wants to pull out of the deal. The reason he gives me is that 'the insurance cost is prohibitive'.

I ask him why that is, after all, I am considerably younger than this guy, who lives in Milton Keynes (should be much cheaper than what I am paying!)

He apparantly has 12 years trouble free motoring, maximum no-claims, a garage, is retired and covers very low mileage etc etc.

I know that he is either lying, or has not phoned enough insurance companies, or whatever. At the end of the day, it is not my problem/responsibility to arrange insurance.

After my suggestion that he should perhaps try telephoning a few more insurance companies, he agrees to phone me back.

When he phones me back, he informs me that he has stopped the cheque that he presented. I inform him that I have already paid it in, and comment that this was not a very honest way of doing business. He makes a few unpleasant comments, and that is the end of the conversation.

The situation that I am now in is the following:

I have already withdrawn the car from all advertised places (including ebay etc) and have replied to emails from people with the effect of it having been already sold etc.

I am now doubtful as to the level of interest I will recieve when I re-list it (people may think that I am the timewaster, or that the car was no good etc).

I may not even get the price that I am looking for/need for the car!

So I am not happy! :( :devil: :crazy:

He has wasted time, money, petrol, effort and most significantly has jeopardised my chances of selling the car for the price that it deserves.

What would you do?!?!?

Will
 
Arghhhhhh !! What a pain - but is it really going to be worth your time and hassle pursuing the guy ? If you had completed the deal through eBay, then perhaps you might have had some come back / their assistance, but if it was me I'd just re-list it with an honest explanation, and I'm sure you'll attract enough interest to re-sell it to somebody who's not going to waste your time.

S.
 
Sorry to hear that. You have a nice looking car which should sell. I'd relist it and just put Relisted due to Non payer and leave it at that.
 
That stinks, he should have enquired about insurance costs before deciding he wanted the lexus. Personally, I think there is a hidden reason he has not followed through on the deal afterall it's a lovely car. Hope you have better luck next time.
 
Isn't a deposit a deposit? Surely if he gave you a deposit of £500 in order to secure the car it's your money now? Otherwise why did he give you the deposit in the first place? Do you think a stealership would refund a deposit when the car's turned up and you tell them you've decided against it because of the insurance? :)
 
Shude's right. A cheque is promisory note.......do you know a friendly solicitor who could send a letter for you??
 
You may have a legally binding contract: Offer, Acceptance, Consideration, Intention to be Bound etc. The terms of that included a non refundable deposit, so if the cheques has cleared into your account even though he tried to stop it, keep the dosh and tell him to get lost.

If not, consider the small claims court to recover your costs and maybe the non - refundable deposit if you can face the hassle. Otherwise just satify yourself by writing him a suitable letter threatening dire legal consequences if he does not pay up. If nothing else it might worry the blighter.
 
if I was £500 up to an idiot like that then I wouldn't bat an eyelid and use the money as funds towards your re-listing in ebay and other cars mags.
 
try the bank

tell them the storey and say a portion of the money should cover out of pocket expences,did not think you could stop a cheque of it been presented ask them to hold it as you are in dispute with this guy show them the receipt you must have right on your side
 
mug

you withdrew your other means of sale too early

admittedly he seems to have had a moral dilemna letting you down, i.e. he called you a few times etc

dog eat dog, we all wish it wasn't but if someone had come along this morning with a suitcase full of cash, what would you have done?
 
sasha said:
mug

you withdrew your other means of sale too early

admittedly he seems to have had a moral dilemna letting you down, i.e. he called you a few times etc

dog eat dog, we all wish it wasn't but if someone had come along this morning with a suitcase full of cash, what would you have done?

Yes, I withdrew my other means of sale, because the car had been sold!

After all, the receipt that I had draughted up, signed and agreed to be bound to, by both parties, details the transaction. I had received a deposit, and the vehicle was 'sold' in good faith.

Surely by him 'bouncing' the cheque, he has failed to fulfill his part of this contract :confused:

sasha said:
dog eat dog, we all wish it wasn't but if someone had come along this morning with a suitcase full of cash, what would you have done?

If someone had come along this morning with a 'suitcase full of cash', then unfortunately, as I was bound by this contract, I would have had no option but to reject it. I *may* even have reached more than the price he had agreed to by letting the vehicle sell through auction, but after all, I had made an agreement. I do think now that in these circumstances, this is unlikely!

After all, that is the point of a deposit after all!

Not fishing for sympathy, but I genuinely believe that most people here would have acted in a similar fashion to me.

And if I had not 'withdrawn my other means of sale too early', what would I have done if somebody else had clicked on the 'buy it now' button on ebay?!?

Anyway, I am genuinely a nice guy to do business with. I play fair, and by the rules. After his attitude, and the way that he spoke to me, I am very tempted to pursue it in these circumstances. I wouldn't normally bother, but after all, why should I be out of pocket due to his actions/attitude?

Being the type of guy that he seems to be, I very much doubt that he would agree to a compromise either!

Anybody else on here have any experience with claims through a Small Claims Court?!?

Cheers,

Will
 
good luck!

nice to see someone with some decency

let us know how you get on....
 
...taking someone to small claims and winning might be the easy bit. Collecting the money afterwards might be more tricky...
 
hmm , and the lesson of the day is only to accept cleared funds

Sorry to hear about that dude :) cash deposit next time ronnd :)
 
I hate to say this, but if you use the services of a solicitor, there will only be one winner??????

If the cheque has been stopped then I personally would chalk it up to a bad experience.

Going to the small claims court is an option, but you are going to loose sleep worrying about a whole multitude of 'what ifs?' Finally you might even win your small claim, then you are going to spend another whole load of sleepless nights worrying about how you are going to get the money out of this person. He obviously is not the richest person on the block, otherwise he would be able to afford the insurance.

You are obviously angry and understandly annoyed, but life is far too short to waste over something like this.

Is he self employed? If so perhaps an anonymous call to the dreaded VAT man!!!! might cheer you up!!

Good luck with your decision, but remember :) :) smile.

Regards,
John
 
fuzzer - yeah I know, lesson learned. But at the time of sale, a 'deposit', paid by cheque didn't seem unreasonable. After all, it was to clear before the vehicle was to be collected! I know robbers don't run around in stripey tops, but out of everything that I have ever sold, I would not have put this guy down as a timewaster/crook!

As I said, I play fair, and 99% of other people do. If I was to treat every potential buyer like a criminal in advance, then I would probably never sell anything! Anyway, as you say, it will definately be 'cash only' for any other deposits that I take!

glojo - I genuinely believe that this guy is lying. After all, anyone that is looking at a high-teens insurance group car would have some sort of idea of the cost.
And the fact that he is spending ~ £5K on a car would tell me that he is hardly 'poor'.
He also made other anecdotal references to other vehicles and the fact that he is due to go on holiday for a week, so it seems as if money isn't the concern here.

If he had been honest and straight with me as to whatever reason why he didn't wish to proceed, maybe we could have come to some kind of arrangement. But the fact that he claimed to already have cancelled the cheque, and the fact that he was rather rude to me on the phone earlier, makes me even more inclined to push the matter. He did not apoligise even once either!

After all, I am no way 'at fault' in this transaction. He has attempted to 'pull out' by his own choice, and is under the impression that this is acceptable.

When I have bought cars in the past (including this particular car), I have put deposits down. If I was to change my mind then I doubt that I would be given my deposit back. I also feel that the deposit amount was reasonable (amount suggested by the buyer), and in these circumstances, £500 ~ 10% may not even cover what I stand to lose through this transaction!

I think I will wait to see if by some chance he is bluffing, and see if the cheque clears, and then take it from there. I may also have calmed down a little, and forget about it? I don't know, but will see how it goes.

Still not happy,

Cheers,

Will
 
I feel for you mate, I really do but you still get dicked by people on ebay, I know from experence and you have little recompense other than a free relist after filing non paying bidder reports then another form that escapes me right now. hindsight is a wonderful thing and maybe you were hasty in pulling it but I may have done the same if this guy looked genuine. I would relist with an explanation. the other thing I have just thought about is...well...er... I am not 100% sure but I have a funny feeling you might get charged for a bounced cheque by your bank. If you do, give em hell as banks need customers not the other way round....hope you get it sorted.....wiggy
 
Hi,
don't see how he could argue that the contract is not legally binding. Talk to the Citizens Advice see what they think, Then if its a good bet, pass it to a solicitor. Point out that you will enforce deposit + inconvenience + costs and that you will sell the debt to a Debt Collector :devil: (This will mean that you get about 80% of the money, but the real point to this is that, they are generally b@st@rds and will put sky high charges on top of the dept and he will get a CCJ to boot) If you root around you might find a company that will take the whole job on for you. By the end of it he will never get another loan again and thus won't be able to get away with doing this to someone else...

Of course you could always just get a load of flyers made for call girls/boys offering the most unsavory debasing types of acts and use his mobile / home number for contact details :devil: :devil: :devil: cheaper in time than legal action and probably more fun :) but most definitely illegal !

but sorry to see you messed around like this :-(
 
Will,

If you're serious about caliming the money owed to you, have a look at - https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

I started to investigate this when a well know electronics retailer lost some hardware of mine and was intimating it was my fault. They paid up in the end without having to take it any further.

Best of luck.
 
This has happened to me many times... Its a common situation to be in...
This is one of the joys of buying/selling second hand cars...

I am usually v reluctant to take a cheque, even for a deposit, theyre just not worth the paper.... I would be happier taking a £100 cash deposit than a £1000 by cheque...

As such, if i receive any enquiries after ive received a deposit, i keep a list of all the people who enquired or expressed an interest and then call them back if the deal falls through. This has helped me on many many occasions...

You say its not your responsibility to arrange insurance, but if i were you, i would have taken all of his details and rung a few companies. This way you can see if there is a genuine problem, if so then you can help sort it out..
I used to have to do this for a lot of cars i sold, especially the japanese imports i used to have... You may well have saved the deal if he was genuine... Even though he doesnt sound it!

Anyway, i suggest you simply relist, maybe wait a few days if you can and explain the situation. Do not sound bitter in the ad though!

Also, i would state only cash or bankers draft payment...
 

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