ATS, what a bunch of gits

[jblackCLK]

I bought two Falken 452 245/40/17 tyres on the internet for a very reasonable price of 144.10 for the pair posted.

Last night I take said tyres along to my local ATS(Morton) and they charge me £15 a side to fit them (a little steep, but I was in a hurry). This morning at 5am I set out from Liverpool to Leeds, roads are quiet, I set the cruise to 60 and relax. about 25 miles into my motorway journey I get a virbration from the back. At first I think one of the wheels has lost a weight but it quickly gets worse so I pull over onto the hard shoulder and find that the passenger side rear is totaly flat. I don't have a spare so to cut a long story short 2.5 hours later I'm recovered by the RAC to the nearest ATS in Warrington.

They take the tyre off and can find nothing wrong with it other than its buggered as its been run flat. The Manger then goes on to explain that he thinks the tyre has deflated due to corrosion on the inside of the rim so there wasn't a proper seal. He shows me the wheel and to my eyes there has been very little or no attempt to prepare the rim before the new tyre was fitted.
I was stuck with no spare and 25 miles from home so I have no choice but to stump up £166 for yet another tyre. This time I watch the new tyre being fitted and note the difference in the rim after being properly rubbed down. Strangly this new tyre has note gone down.

I've just been to the original ATS and spoken to the manager. I've pointed out that there was nothing wrong with the original tyre and that there is nothing wrong with the wheel so I'm now out £166 because the tyre wasn't fitted properly and this loss is directly attributable to them.
All he would offer was to refund the £15 fitting fee, so now I have to ring their head office and rant at someone else to see if I can get anywhere.

feels better having written it all down.

 

[SilverSaloon]

i feel for you - they will always just blame the tyre etc if they didnt supply it. When i got some tyres from ebay and got National Tyres to fit them they gave them a check over 1st and would only fit them if they were OK. I suspect they would blame the tyre still if i had a problem, which i didnt luckily.

if you can show that the tyres were badly fitted then i am sure they should cough up as at the end of the day they have fitted a set of tyres and should of checked them over to see if they are fit for fitting beforehand otherwise rejected the job IMO

They cant blame the rim if the new tyre is fine on it - as you say is a badly prepared job. Surly the other ATS manager can back you up here and give your claim to Head Office some clout?

 

[wemorgan]

You've my sympathies....it's galling when that happens.

I'm seldom impressed by the workmanship of tyre fitters.

 

[kwakdonut]

You've my sympathies....it's galling when that happens.

I'm seldom impressed by the workmanship of tyre fitters.

Unfortunately, they are a necessary evil!!!

 

[Rob77]

Assuming you paid by credit card, just call the card company and tell them what you've told us.

 

[NewMB]

Can always try the small claims court?!

 

[dougal74]

Highlights the risk of taking tyres to the big franchises. I went the eBay route and took them to my local indie. He charged GBP45 for four and even took the time to show me the corrosion on the BMW rims they were working on and suggest I get some new rims at some point in the future (which I did - one tyre went down and I needed to go back for them to have another go at cleaning it)!
A small claims court would find fault with both parties - them for improper fitment and you for not checking pressures after having them fitted (assuming of course that you didn't).

 

[jblackCLK]

I've just got off the phone from their head office for the second time and as far as they are concerned its not their fault.

They maintain that it is not their responsibility to maintain my wheels and therefore if the tyre doesn't fit properly its not their fault. As long as they take reasonable steps to ensure there will be a good air tight seal then anything that happens after that is tough.

I may have had some sympathy with this but I was told by him in a previous conversation that if the wheel is in a poor condition I would have been told and they would have refused to fit the tyre. When I got the first tyre fitted I was told neither of these things. I wasn't even warned there may be a problem with the rim. I also refuse to believe that if reasonable steps had been taken to provide a good seal then the tire would not have completely deflated within 13 hours.

[FONT=&quot]Incidentally[/FONT], I did do a visual check before I started out this morning and the tyre was inflated, I did not check the pressure though and to top it off I payed by debit card, I don't have a credit card.


The cheaky ba$tard$ even charge me to dispose of the first tyre which is currently in my boot.

Can anyone tell me how I go about a small claims and do I address it to there head office or the local garage?

Thanks.

 

[partsspecialist]

You've my sympathies....it's galling when that happens.

I'm seldom impressed by the workmanship of tyre fitters.

Thats why they are tyre fitters and not techs.

 

[carnut]

IMHO Im afraid you have a snowballs chance in hell pursuing this in the small claims court; that will only cover your £15 IF you win. Consequential damage wont be considered and anyway I bet when you signed the worksheet/bill the small print will have covered ATS

Your best bet is to see if ATS will give goodwill on the tyre as it happened so soon after fitting and the Warrington ATS manager can back you up

Tread softly to catch monkey!

 

[flango]

I've just got off the phone from their head office for the second time and as far as they are concerned its not their fault.

They maintain that it is not their responsibility to maintain my wheels and therefore if the tyre doesn't fit properly its not their fault. As long as they take reasonable steps to ensure there will be a good air tight seal then anything that happens after that is tough.

I may have had some sympathy with this but I was told by him in a previous conversation that if the wheel is in a poor condition I would have been told and they would have refused to fit the tyre. When I got the first tyre fitted I was told neither of these things. I wasn't even warned there may be a problem with the rim. I also refuse to believe that if reasonable steps had been taken to provide a good seal then the tire would not have completely deflated within 13 hours.

[FONT=&quot]Incidentally[/FONT], I did do a visual check before I started out this morning and the tyre was inflated, I did not check the pressure though and to top it off I payed by debit card, I don't have a credit card.


The cheaky ba$tard$ even charge me to dispose of the first tyre which is currently in my boot.

Can anyone tell me how I go about a small claims and do I address it to there head office or the local garage?

Thanks.

Check out this http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

Remember there is no such thing as a small claims court, just claims of lower value handled by a special procedure in County Court. The procedure is dead easy and does cover faulty workmanship as you describe so I see no reason why you should not seriously consider this route I have used it several times and the companies have always paid up including my costs for filing the claim, I was successful against a Japaneese engine supplier in London, Hotpoint, Black & Decker. to name a few. I won't stand for BS if they won't negotiate slap a summons on them. Once that summons lands they don't want the hassle of a court appearance and usually pay up.

 

[dougal74]

Check out this http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

Remember there is no such thing as a small claims court, just claims of lower value handled by a special procedure in County Court. The procedure is dead easy and does cover faulty workmanship as you describe so I see no reason why you should not seriously consider this route I have used it several times and the companies have always paid up including my costs for filing the claim, I was successful against a Japaneese engine supplier in London, Hotpoint, Black & Decker. to name a few. I won't stand for BS if they won't negotiate slap a summons on them. Once that summons lands they don't want the hassle of a court appearance and usually pay up.

But this would be a claim for damages not for the workmanship which was to the value of 15quid.

 

[flango]

But this would be a claim for damages not for the workmanship which was to the value of 15quid.

Faulty workmanship if the fitter did not check the inside of the rim was suitable for fitting a new tyre, if it was not suitable then the owner should have been informed. The unit once fitted back to the car must be fit for purpose, this was clearly not the case as proved by the deflation and a new tyre fitted to a cleaned and prepared rim was fine. Therefore the claim should be for the whole unit (Fitting + Tyre) + cost of filing as the incident was caused by faulty workmanship leading to destruction of the product.

 

[dougal74]

Faulty workmanship if the fitter did not check the inside of the rim was suitable for fitting a new tyre.

How could you prove that unless one ATS garage goes against the other?

Unless the intention is just to threaten and get ATS to settle prior to going that far...

 

[jblackCLK]

Personally I don't think they have a leg to stand on.

First of all the second garage stopped short of saying it was bad workmanship and no matter how I phrased the question did not admit it was ATS's fault so no help there.

What ATS are saying is the seal failed because the rim has excessive corrosion and it is not their responsibility to maintain or repair my wheels. I don't disaggree with this.

However they have also stated that if a wheel is in a poor condition they would refuse to fit a tyre or at the very least warn the customer. They didn't say anything to me about the condition of the wheel and they fitted the tyre, therefore they have deemed the wheel was in a good enough condition to have the tyre fitted.

Another point is at the second garage the chap there put special sealer onto the rim to aid sealing. He explained this was expensive stuff and was only used when the rim was in question. This was not put on the first time so either the fitter felt the rim didn't need it or they didn't have any or he rushed the job, either they are at fault.

Also at the second garage the fitter showed me the corrosion on the rim before he fitted the second tyre. To my untrained eye the corrosion was obvious and could easily be felt when I ran my finger along it. When he had finished rubbing it down there was only smooth clean metal. To my mind this was what should have been done in the first place, especially if there was any possibility there could be a serious leak.

The final bit of the puzzle is that the new tyre shows no sign of lossing air

So to sum up ATS have agreed that the original tyre was not at fault. The fact they went ahead and fitted the first tyre with no warning and the fact the second tyre is not deflating prove there is nothing wrong with the wheel. So if there is nothing wrong with the tyre or wheel what could be left which caused the tyre to deflate fully in less the 14 hours after fitting??

Ultimately it comes down to me saying it was fitted incorrectly and them saying it was. If it had been a few weeks or more between fitting and deflating then fair enough but the tyre went down in a matter of hours which just wouldn't happen if the rim had been prepped correctly.

Can anyone pick holes in the above as it will help with any counter arguments.

Thanks

 

[Ronnie]

Whilst I tend to agree that the likely fault is the poor workmanship, it may be difficult to prove this after the tyre has been run on flat.....e.g. any foreign object may well have come out when running in this condition...
No harm in taking the suggestion of going through the courts and see if they look to pay up which would be cheaper as they would employ solicitors to respond and defend..

 

[ecossebev]

I'm no lawyer, but as money has been exchanged, both parties have entered a legally binding contract. ATS have offered their services, but failed in their efforts to fit the tyre properly. My advice is to contact Consumer Direct, a govt. funded body which offers free and impartial advice on matters such as this. Trading standards may offer some help too. I would try this before trying a small claims court....best of luck.

 

[Dieselman]

So if there is nothing wrong with the tyre or wheel what could be left which caused the tyre to deflate fully in less the 14 hours after fitting??

Can anyone pick holes in the above as it will help with any counter arguments.

Easily...

The wheel surface was indeed faulty and is now holding air due to them performing work above and beyond a standard tyre fitting. It's not normal to grind the wheel and apply sealant to stop an air leak, and presumably you hadn't told the fitter that the old tyre lost air (because it didn't), so there is no reason for him to think the new one will.

The fact that it happened so the 2nd fitter performed extra work is merely a result of circumstances and hindsight.

If you try for a claim they might make a commercial decision to not fight it because it's not worth the hassle, but if they do I doubt you will win.

 

[imadoofus]

Isn't it illegal (and foolhardy) to travel without a spare, or an inflation device?

 

[jblackCLK]

I had a compressor in the car but the tyres side wall was damaged as it was run on flat and it would no longer hold air. I'm not worried about the tyre as ATS have already stated there was no fault with the tyre and that it was corrosion.

I don't believe the second fitter performed work above reasonable steps the standard usually applied to prepping a rim. First of all he didn't grind it he used a wire brush for about five minutes.

Secondly they have stated that in law they have to take reasonable steps to ensure a good seal. Now if all rims where equal then we could define the amount of work necessary but as all wheels are different and in different states of repair the amount amount of work necessary must be guaged by the fitter and where it is deem to be to great or beyond there ability to fix then they can refuse to fit the tyre.

They didn't refuse and they didn't warm me of a potential problem. They are basing their case on the fact that the wheel was to corroded to provide a good seal.

So why did the first guy fit the tyre? why did he not warn me? why did he not use the better sealant? Why was there sufficent rust left on the rim to cause the tyre to fully deflate within such a short period of time?

I can only conclude he didn't think the wheel was a problem or he didn't prep it correctly either way he was at fault.