ATS, what a bunch of gits

[flango]

I had a compressor in the car but the tyres side wall was damaged as it was run on flat and it would no longer hold air. I'm not worried about the tyre as ATS have already stated there was no fault with the tyre and that it was corrosion.

I don't believe the second fitter performed work above reasonable steps the standard usually applied to prepping a rim. First of all he didn't grind it he used a wire brush for about five minutes.

Secondly they have stated that in law they have to take reasonable steps to ensure a good seal. Now if all rims where equal then we could define the amount of work necessary but as all wheels are different and in different states of repair the amount amount of work necessary must be guaged by the fitter and where it is deem to be to great or beyond there ability to fix then they can refuse to fit the tyre.

They didn't refuse and they didn't warm me of a potential problem. They are basing their case on the fact that the wheel was to corroded to provide a good seal.

So why did the first guy fit the tyre? why did he not warn me? why did he not use the better sealant? Why was there sufficent rust left on the rim to cause the tyre to fully deflate within such a short period of time?

I can only conclude he didn't think the wheel was a problem or he didn't prep it correctly either way he was at fault.

I still believe your problem was caused by the fitter in the first place, wire brushing a rim and putting sealant on is common place he obviously did not do this, resulting in the unit replaced on the car was not fit for purpose end of story.

This link gives you the ATS Head Office details http://www.transportweb.com/directory/443/14515/

Call them ask to speak to the sales director, if you can't get to him ask for his name and tell them you require this to serve a summons on the company. I guarantee they will be back in touch and will come to the party. ATS are a wholly owned subsiduary of Michelin and even if you do have to get recompense through the courts they wont fight it, it's just too expensive to hire lawyers to defend a small claim against a big company, good luck

 

[dougal74]

Personally I don't think they have a leg to stand on.

First of all the second garage stopped short of saying it was bad workmanship and no matter how I phrased the question did not admit it was ATS's fault so no help there.

What ATS are saying is the seal failed because the rim has excessive corrosion and it is not their responsibility to maintain or repair my wheels. I don't disaggree with this.

However they have also stated that if a wheel is in a poor condition they would refuse to fit a tyre or at the very least warn the customer. They didn't say anything to me about the condition of the wheel and they fitted the tyre, therefore they have deemed the wheel was in a good enough condition to have the tyre fitted.

Another point is at the second garage the chap there put special sealer onto the rim to aid sealing. He explained this was expensive stuff and was only used when the rim was in question. This was not put on the first time so either the fitter felt the rim didn't need it or they didn't have any or he rushed the job, either they are at fault.

Also at the second garage the fitter showed me the corrosion on the rim before he fitted the second tyre. To my untrained eye the corrosion was obvious and could easily be felt when I ran my finger along it. When he had finished rubbing it down there was only smooth clean metal. To my mind this was what should have been done in the first place, especially if there was any possibility there could be a serious leak.

The final bit of the puzzle is that the new tyre shows no sign of lossing air

So to sum up ATS have agreed that the original tyre was not at fault. The fact they went ahead and fitted the first tyre with no warning and the fact the second tyre is not deflating prove there is nothing wrong with the wheel. So if there is nothing wrong with the tyre or wheel what could be left which caused the tyre to deflate fully in less the 14 hours after fitting??

Ultimately it comes down to me saying it was fitted incorrectly and them saying it was. If it had been a few weeks or more between fitting and deflating then fair enough but the tyre went down in a matter of hours which just wouldn't happen if the rim had been prepped correctly.

Can anyone pick holes in the above as it will help with any counter arguments.

Thanks

Your position is valid, you are suggesting negligence on the part of the first fitter - that the corrosion to the rim was obvious and that he should have a) remedied, b) warned you or c) refused to fit. It makes sense to threaten ATS as this is a safety issue and it may cause them to settle as many others have said.
However, it would be a tough claim to prove since unless you took photos etc. you would need to call on the 2nd fitter (also an ATS employee) to give evidence to that effect. I would not state that ATS have "agreed" to anything as such as this stage, employees have merely made observations to you first hand. I would avoid saying such things as "an untrained eye" as you are the only one who will be evidencing the poor state of the rim. The amount of time for deflation is also not a factor here.
Also if it was that obvious why didn't the original tyre, before it was replaced by your internet supplied one suffer deflation, loss of pressure or other such signs?
One poster mentioned your contract with ATS since you paid for their services - I would read carefully the invoice/sales receipt Terms and Conditions to see what ATS say about liability in these matters. I am sure it would deal with responsibility in such instances.
It probably won't get that far but bear these factors in mind when you judge your confidence level of going to court.

Good luck.

 

[jblackCLK]

Your position is valid, you are suggesting negligence on the part of the first fitter - that the corrosion to the rim was obvious and that he should have a) remedied, b) warned you or c) refused to fit. It makes sense to threaten ATS as this is a safety issue and it may cause them to settle as many others have said.
However, it would be a tough claim to prove since unless you took photos etc.

I don't think this would be tough to prove. ATS and I both agree that the rim was to corroded to provide a good seal, They are after all basing their case on it.

What I'm pointing out is ATS want it both ways. The wheel was in a good enough condition for them to take my money and fit the tyre while not warning me of corrosion, and now they're saying the rim was in a poor condition which lead to it deflating, completely ignoring the fact that the second tyre they fitted has no problems at all.

So I ask why was the rim still in a poor condition when the first tyre was fitted? why wasn't the work done by the second fitter done by the first?

Also I think the time it took the tyre to deflat is critical as it directly relates to the quality of the seal. Rust is a slow ongoing process, if they tyre had deflated in a month from now then fair enough the corrosion has progressed and broken the seal. However because the tyre deflated so quickly after being fitted there is no way the corrosion could have progressed and so it must have been there in the first place. Worst still if the corrosion is bad enough to cause the tyre to fail at some point in the near future why wasn't I warned about it.

 

[big x]

My local ATS place in Chard refused to fit a tyre I supplied. Reading through this thread the reason why is obvious.
I took the lose wheels it to an indie who did two for £10 cash..... no receipt of course.

 

[jaymanek]

You are not going to get anywhere with this.

I see your point but as the tyre was not bought from them you havent a leg to stand on.. they could just say you had a faulty tyre.. go contact the place you bought it from.

All they will do for £15 is fit the tyre and balance it...

 

[The G.F.P]

just another typical example of how companies work in this country, they lie, kiss ass and BS to get your money and once they have it you can go take a jump if there is a problem like my issue with blockbusters who dont even return my emails

 

[hawk20]

Bad luck to the OP.

But couple of points. Doesn't the law require a spare or some equivalent system?

Secondly, this is what worries me about people buying on the internet. They pinch the main business but don't have a showroom, fitters etc. People go to MB dealers, sit in the cars, have demos, borrow for extended demos and then buy on the internet. If we all buy tyres (and other things) this way there will be no ATS and Kwikfit left to fit them.

And if they get sued without getting the tyre business they'll stop agreeing kindly to fit internet tyres.

BTW my local ATS are excellent. And they price match proper stockists.

 

[flango]

Bad luck to the OP.

But couple of points. Doesn't the law require a spare or some equivalent system?

Secondly, this is what worries me about people buying on the internet. They pinch the main business but don't have a showroom, fitters etc. People go to MB dealers, sit in the cars, have demos, borrow for extended demos and then buy on the internet. If we all buy tyres (and other things) this way there will be no ATS and Kwikfit left to fit them.

And if they get sued without getting the tyre business they'll stop agreeing kindly to fit internet tyres.

BTW my local ATS are excellent. And they price match proper stockists.

No ATS or Kwik Fit is that a bad thing?

 

[A210AMG]

Don't think a spare is a MOT requirement

If you have one and bald they can fail you

If you don't have one you don't fail on that.

For your own saftey its good to have one or in modern cars some just have a can of sealant.

Think its a bite the lip and carry on to be honest you will just get more wound up trying to get anywhere.

 

[flango]

Don't think a spare is a MOT requirement

If you have one and bald they can fail you

If you don't have one you don't fail on that.

For your own saftey its good to have one or in modern cars some just have a can of sealant.

Think its a bite the lip and carry on to be honest you will just get more wound up trying to get anywhere.

Can of sealant no good if you have trashed the sidewall by running it on flat, I just ordered my new car and a proper full size wheel is a no cost option, full time spare every time for me since a disaster when I got 2 punctures within 2 hours in Scotland.

 

[Dieselman]

You are not going to get anywhere with this.

All they will do for £15 is fit the tyre and balance it...

Well said jay. The O/p and anyone supporting this issue aren't looking at the whole picture.
An inflated wheel and tyre combo was presented for a new tyre to be fitted.
the original set was holding air apparently with no sealant required. This indicates that the corrosion wasn't bad enough to create an air leak at that time.
The new tyre was fitted in the normal fashion but due to the corrosion on the wheel that O/p supplied the bead couldn't maintain a perfect seal so the tyre went flat.
Indeed for all we know the bead on the tyre may be weeping a bit as well.

The second fitter wire brushed and sealed the rim as he was now in possession of the fact that the rim/tyre had leaked air, so took measures above and beyond a regular tyre fitting..

ATS may back down to a formal court claim, but it will be as a result of a commercial decision, not because they have been negligent as noted in this post.

if you do have to get recompense through the courts they wont fight it, it's just too expensive to hire lawyers to defend a small claim against a big company,

Personally I would have thought it reasonable to offer a discount to a loyal customer but he O/p isn't that so it's not surprising that they haven't. What is being suggested is basically corporate blackmail and scamming due to expecting them to pay as it's only a small sum...It's just like no win no fee injury claim people......

So why did the first guy fit the tyre? why did he not warn me? why did he not use the better sealant? Why was there sufficient rust left on the rim to cause the tyre to fully deflate within such a short period of time?

Because he didn't think it would be a problem.....

Guess what.....stuff happens, this isn't a perfect world.

 

[jpwilliams]

Hello Jonathan,

Sorry to read your story.
Look to see if you have free legal cover under your household or motor policy and if you have then use it to recover all of your costs.
Secondly if you know of Bathers in Birkenhead on the A41 by Cammel Laird then give them a try sometime in the future as they are most certainly not cowboys..
Regards
John

 

[flango]

Personally I would have thought it reasonable to offer a discount to a loyal customer but he O/p isn't that so it's not surprising that they haven't. What is being suggested is basically corporate blackmail and scamming due to expecting them to pay as it's only a small sum...It's just like no win no fee injury claim people......

Nothing like no win no fee, and definitely not a scam the OP took property he had paid for to a business for a service, the business failed to provide a satisfactory service and as a result the whole unit was not fit for purpose, clear case of poor workmanship, the fitter should have inspected the rim not just assumed it would hold air because the last one did this is normal practice at good tyre fitting companies. OP should contact head office as advised and try and at least get them to talk, if not I would definitely pursue it through the courts, corporate black mail or not I would not stand the loss of a tyre. Companies take commerical decisions all the time not to defend legal action. ATS Screwed up in the first place so they have an obligation to make recompense for the whole unit

 

[219]

Don't think a spare is a MOT requirement

If you have one and bald they can fail you

If you don't have one you don't fail on that.

There is no LEGAL requirement to carry a spare or means of fixing a puncture , although it is prudent to do so . HGV's and PSV's don't carry spares , and whilst car drivers can call on the breakdown organisations for help , they may sometimes have to wait a while .

As for the MOT , a spare wheel is not a testable item - therefore it does not matter whether or not you have one , even if you do have one it is not part of the test so it does not matter if it is bald , damaged or flat .

I know this because I bought my 300TE-24 with no MOT and , having obtained insurance , drove it straight to the testing station for a pre-arranged test . Since the spare wheel was illegal , I asked this question at the time and was told it was not part of the test and would not matter .

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>As for the MOT , a spare wheel is not a testable item

Quite true, the MOT only applys to tyres fitted to roadwheels.

 

[hawk20]

No ATS or Kwik Fit is that a bad thing?

Just having internet people selling from a catalogue would be a bad thing IMO.

So would only having internet suppliers of cars. No showroom to visit, no cars to sit in, and no demos to drive. Awful.

 

[andy_k]

No ATS or Kwik Fit is that a bad thing?

terrible - our local Kwik Fit is great

 

[flango]

Just having internet people selling from a catalogue would be a bad thing IMO.

So would only having internet suppliers of cars. No showroom to visit, no cars to sit in, and no demos to drive. Awful.

I agree to a certain extent but if you want the fancy showroom, demo cars and the rest then someone has to pay and that is the consumer, this is all about market segmentation and the split between consultative and commodity sales. Some of us know the exact spec of what we want manufacturer, performance etc.. so then the objective is usually to get the cheapest price, if you want all the frills and someone to bring you coffee then you'll pay more.

I also have to admit I have had some good service from Kwik Fit but some appalling service too, I think it deppends on the centre manager.

Back to the OP its quite clear the ATS fitter was negligent or operating in could not give a toss mode, what would have happened if the OP had had a bad accident or hit somebody through the tyre deflating? There would have been a full examination of the car and recent work carried out with likely prosecutions. Suppose we liken it to a mechanic fitting a set of brake pads and noticing the front brake hoses were weeping but said nothing and just fitted the pads, subsequently the brakes fail on the car and cause an accident are we then saying the mechanic was not to blame?

It's time people took responsibility for their own actions.

 

[grober]

Ats

I have always found my local ATS to be fine. As a previous poster said quality can vary from depot to depot depending on management. There are clues you can pick up- is the depot busy,- do you feel happy /comfortable dealing with the manager/customer counter staff, -does it seem a "happy ship", -do they retain staff-are there familiar faces there year on year? Show them some respect but at the same time let them know you aren't a complete novice to tyre technology either.[ if you are -do some reading ] Always try to find a way to speak directly to the guy who is fitting your tyres so you can pass on any concerns you have. Lots of people treat tyre fitters like s**t and are surprised when that's the service they get in return.