Audi s5 Clutch and Warranty Issues.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SportsCoupeRich, Jun 20, 2011.

  1. SportsCoupeRich

    SportsCoupeRich Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,824
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Saffron Walden, Essex. Riyadh, KSA
    Car:
    RRS
    Mods - feel free to move to defectors forum; I placed here as I want some advice and don't want people to miss it.

    Anywho....

    I purchased an Audi s5 for the low £30k's a year ago. It had5 months manufacturers warranty left on it and then a Audi Approved Used warranty.

    At xmas it failed on me on a country lane 2 hours from home. It was recovered and the clutch master cylinder replaced. Last Tuesday I dropped it in for its first service under me and the clutch again went (albeit a different part) whilst parked on their forecourt.

    Audi are not approving a warranty repair as they want to see the reason, via pictures which apparently involves removing the V8 and gearbox at 20hrs odd work to take out and put back in, at my cost if they refuse to replace it.

    What should I do - I am not authorising the work as it could cost 2k....???!!!?

    It is not the clutch plate that needs replacing, which I could see as a wear and tear item, but something else ancillary.

    My real thought is that I dont want this car anymore, as good as it is, because I dont trust it has been constructed correctly.

    Is it too late to reject it after 12 months? Web a myriad of conflicting answers as always...:eek::mad::doh::wallbash:
     
  2. SPX

    SPX MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    15,600
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Location:
    Ap Norf
    Car:
    That one
    I think legally you don't have much of a leg to stand on. :eek:

    How many miles have you put on the car since you had it?
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. OP
    OP
    SportsCoupeRich

    SportsCoupeRich Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,824
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Saffron Walden, Essex. Riyadh, KSA
    Car:
    RRS
    Less than 6000.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    SportsCoupeRich

    SportsCoupeRich Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,824
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Saffron Walden, Essex. Riyadh, KSA
    Car:
    RRS
    My opinion is that it is not reasonable to sell a car that fails twice on the same group of components within 12 months of ownership....it has done 45000 in total.
     
  5. Will

    Will MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    11,179
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    GL63 AMG / S211 E55K AMG / 190E 2.3-16 / 190E 2.5-16 / Porsche 911
    I guess one way or the other, whether you keep the car or not, it'll need stripping down to repair what is broken/worn/at fault.

    If it's something that has failed prematurely, and covered by the warranty then you should be in the clear. Obviously if it's just normal wear and tear/not covered, then you'll be digging deep.

    What doesn't really change of course is that you'll need to have the car fixed somehow.

    I don't think you stand much chance in terms of rejection, even if it's an issue of quality - especially if they've not had an opportunity to fix it.

    FWIW, I had an A4 cab from brand new that had loads of clutch issues - had new flywheel, master/slave cylinders, release bearing, selector and clutch linings all within the first few thousand miles :wallbash:
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Dr-Nab

    Dr-Nab Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,190
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Car:
    B8.5 S5 Coupe 430hp/520nm
    From the sounds of it you'll have to pay out yourself to get A**i to replace the faulty part(s) unless you can find a specialist that's willing to do the work cheaper than the main dealer.

    Shame really I've been looking at a few A**i's recently but have heard a whole host of horror stories when it comes to the dealers and repairs which has effectively put me off all together!
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. OP
    OP
    SportsCoupeRich

    SportsCoupeRich Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,824
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Saffron Walden, Essex. Riyadh, KSA
    Car:
    RRS
    Loving the avatar nab.

    So does it sound like I am being unreasonable to expect a used car with a warranty to cover everything apart from the tyres, clutch plate, brake pads etc?

    I don't view the clutch cylinder and a flywheel or thrust bearing to be a wear and tear item after just 45000 miles, and certainly after the cylinder was replaced previously ( I would expect a cursory examination of the system to ensure all is well whilst the parts are out to be f****** obvious!).

    Not very happy and looking forward to never owning an Audi again.
     
  8. Doodle

    Doodle Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,800
    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Location:
    Echo Beach
    Car:
    R129, Leon Cupra 290, BMW R100
    I can't see there's much there to go wrong, there's only the clutch plate, pressure plate, bearing, actuation arm and slave cylinder, it should be pretty simple to work out the approximate problem

    I would be looking for some latitude given that the problem happened while the car was in Audi's care.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. Mr E

    Mr E Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,593
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Sussex
    Car:
    57 W211 E280 AG
    This document outlines the dealer's obligations under the Sale of Goods Act.

    However, this is not always as clear-cut as you would hope. In essence, after approx 6 months a fault is not usually deemed to be present when the vehicle is faulty. However, you are entitled to reasonable levels of reliability which a court will look at on the basis of the age of the car, mileage, value, etc.

    Have a read-through, and see what you think. If you decide not to authorise the work and take the risk on £2k, you'll need to think hard about what to do, as if a court get involved they'll look at the reasonableness on the part of both parties. In other words, is it reasonable for you to expect Audi to take the risk on something that may not be a fault covered by the warranty?

    Have the dealer / Audi warranty people explained why they want further investigation? Why so they say that they think it may not e a warranty issue? It would be reasonable to expect them to give their reasons for this. Also, will the £2k of work be required anyway to fix the issue?

    If it is, then you'll need to fork out the money at some point if it's not going to be covered by the warranty.

    WRT rejecting it, for a used car you usually have a very short period of time in order to do so. Something in the order of 3-4 weeks comes to mind, after which you are in the realms of breach of contact within the SOGA.
     
  10. Dr-Nab

    Dr-Nab Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,190
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Car:
    B8.5 S5 Coupe 430hp/520nm
    Thanks, I think it's a great scene, bit cheesy though!

    It's a tough one really, it depends entirely on how much courtesy the dealership wants to extend to you, sure it's had one clutch problem once so for it to have another so soon they should be willing to have a look in to it at a reduced cost or through accepting that the original issue wasn't resolved but they don't have to.

    It's one of the only reasons I stuck with my E350 order despite all the problems from ordering it to issues I've had with the car my dealer have always been helpful, it's fine now apart from a tech damaging a wheel and tyre but that is all in hand as they've accepted having damaged my car and will be repairing the wheel and replacing the tyre - if the repair job is not to my satisfaction I'll be getting a new alloy. I didn't check the car on collecting it but noticed a day later, they could have turned around and said it's not our problem now but they haven't - decent dealership, I've heard a lot of A**i dealers are unreasonable at best so as much as I'd love an R8 I don't think I will go for one.
     
  11. SPX

    SPX MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    15,600
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Location:
    Ap Norf
    Car:
    That one
    If they don't repair it FOC, stating it's a wear and tear item, kick up a stink about how this must mean that Audi only expect their clutch components to last no more than 45,000 on an S5.

    As a side note, over the last couple of years I have been hearing about a lot of problems with cars that have dual-mass flywheels. Most of which have been either Audis or Vauxhalls....
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2011
  12. OP
    OP
    SportsCoupeRich

    SportsCoupeRich Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,824
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Saffron Walden, Essex. Riyadh, KSA
    Car:
    RRS
    Sweetpea - my view too. We are not talking a stradale Ferrari but a sub super sports car. It's competitors are a BMW 335 and maybe a cayman s or at a push base 911 and I would be flabbergasted If their clutch systems caved in after 45000 miles.
     
  13. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    26,877
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Perth, Scotland
    Car:
    W204 C200CDI Estate
    Under normal circumstances my money would be on the dual mass flywheel. However the S5 does seem to have more than its fair share of clutch problems. :eek: Try this thread 2010 S5 Clutch Sticking... - A5_OC and numerous other postings on the above mention link.
     
  14. prprandall51

    prprandall51 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,278
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Location:
    In hiding
    Car:
    Audi
    As a clutch is a relatively simple system it seems that, as the engine has to come out to establish the fault, it must be the clutch plate, the pressure plate, the release bearing or the slave cylinder (I am not including the flywheel as nobody has yet confirmed if this is dual mss or not).

    If it is the clutch plate, pressure plate or release bearing, then these would presumably be deemed wear and tear items and outside the warranty and thus done at your cost. If it is the slave cylinder then this would presumably be covered by the warranty and Audi will pay.

    I guess that Audi are working on the basis that the answer won't be known until the clutch assembly is accessible, which is necessary regardless of who picks up the bill?

    You are in an unfortunate position, but it seems to me you have no option but to authorise the work and hope that the slave cylinder has failed. , at which point I guess that Audi will sign off on the complete cost as a warranty repair.
    However, with that many miles on a V8 and nothing known about the previous owner's driving style, I fear that it could be a wear and tear item that has failed.
     
  15. prprandall51

    prprandall51 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,278
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Location:
    In hiding
    Car:
    Audi
    Just read Grober's post. Seems that audi may have a problem there, in which case it should be covered by warranty if you are suffering from a faulty release bearing.

    I guess at this stage audi are just covering themselves in case it turns out to be a shredded clutch plate.
     
  16. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    26,877
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Perth, Scotland
    Car:
    W204 C200CDI Estate
    It sounds as if your car falls into the time window for the clutch problem. It would be useful to know if the car's service records shows any previous remedial clutch work [other than your own] has been done with particular reference to the release bearing problem- if not you are probably in a stronger position. Even if it turns out to be an inherent fault which is down to Audi they may still reckon that a proportion of wear on the clutch components is down to wear and tear [ that a lot of torque its transmitting] and may only offer a proportion of the repair cost. I hope they are prepared to cover the entire cost but be prepared to negotiate if they wish you to contribute a proportion of the cost of any repair as the car is out of manufacturer's warranty
     
  17. bolide

    bolide Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,726
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Brighton
    Car:
    BMW E39 525 Diesel Touring
    If I were faced with a potential £2k bill I'd take a sideways approach

    Is it possible to use a borescope or similar to establish what is worn or broken? It would save a lot of hassle

    If you had an engineer's report based on a borescope examination with supporting video or photographs it might be possible to persuade Audi to stump up

    Nick Froome
    the independent Mercedes Estate specialists
     
  18. SPX

    SPX MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    15,600
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Location:
    Ap Norf
    Car:
    That one
    Have you researched any Audi forums?

    If so, how have others gone on with what seems a common fault?
     
  19. OP
    OP
    SportsCoupeRich

    SportsCoupeRich Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,824
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Saffron Walden, Essex. Riyadh, KSA
    Car:
    RRS
    They are not as useful as this one and many in the states under Audi USA. It appears there are not that many s5s sold in the uk.
     
  20. hash

    hash Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    237
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Location:
    oxford
    Car:
    Audi A8 08 with lots of toys & volvo XC90
    Audi do seem to have some weird warranty rules. I have an A8 and have had to call audi assist twice, diagnosed the swirl flap on the manifold and needed replacing. he booked the car in all ok.

    Got a call from the dealer saying as the fault was not present they would swap the diagnosed part. The suggestion from audi dealer was let it fail again, have the car recovered, they will sort a hire car.

    Not happy but apparently it was the audi rules they were following. Quick call to audi A8 desk, all resolved dealer told to swap parts and send bill to audi customer services.

    may be worth a call to them??
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.