Auf wiedersehen German Car Companies: the Model Y has arrived

[Deleted member 149005]

Sorry to say but the numbers tell me you're wrong here. Tesla is more singular in development of its EV battery tech than any other manufacturer. The lead isn't shrinking..it's growing despite larger, costlier batteries being installed by the transitional ICE automaker. (We will never know how much money Mercedes, VW, Porsche or Audi lost on their EV programs that have failed to match Tesla's products)

I'm not so sure that spending more on R&D equates to better innovation....

 

[Petrol Pete]

That's a very big "IF" for one thing, and for another, Tesla don't have a lead over their competitors in any other area; quite the opposite, in fact.

Lots of early adopters, then, but America is a very large, populous, wealthy country. Plus the Tesla is an "all-Amurrican" product, which will undoubtedly widen its appeal, and Americans also seem to like their car styling a bit bland, and their interiors a bit naff, as well.

Europe is a different matter. So too is China, and with the, er, idiosyncratic Chinese view of other people's IPR, I suspect it won't be long before lookalike Chinese knock-offs will be selling there...

Guaranteed, my guess is one of the first few Teslas ever made were spirited away to China to be dissected and copied. They do it with pretty much everything. When I worked in the PRC some of the American guys I worked with were buying fake iphones to take home. The phones were 'clunky' but they worked (for how long is another question) Look at your smart phone and think where to start if you want to copy it ?? This was around 2009 the iPhone was a new thing back then !

 

[Alfie]

Can't believe the value proposition on display. 315+ miles of range. 0-60 in <5 seconds. USD ~$50K. Tons of space and looks great too!

Seems certain that this Tesla is going to bite a giant chunk out of the largest part of the automotive market that Deutschland cares most about. Will take a couple years before doing that in the UK/ EU though.

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No. They are dreadfully built, dreadfully styled, don’t deliver on range claims and driven by the naive.

Wait for proper manufacturers to bring out proper electric vehicles that are as versatile as ICE cars are today.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Sorry to say but the numbers tell me you're wrong here. Tesla is more singular in development of its EV battery tech than any other manufacturer. The lead isn't shrinking..it's growing despite larger, costlier batteries being installed by the transitional ICE automaker. (We will never know how much money Mercedes, VW, Porsche or Audi lost on their EV programs that have failed to match Tesla's products)

Spending a higher % on R&D doesn't equate to out innovating the competition....

18% of £1bn is less than 6% of £10bn turnover...

 

[Lennox]

No. They are dreadfully built, dreadfully styled, don’t deliver on range claims and driven by the naive.

Wait for proper manufacturers to bring out proper electric vehicles that are as versatile as ICE cars are today.

I first drove the Tesla S P85+ back in May 2014. That's a full life cycle in German car terms.

And so far the Germans have delivered a boring Etron, An I8 no one car afford and a i3 that looks like a futuristic mobility car. I will ignore the howling Ipace.

For a brand new company they are doing really well. And I cannot wait till we have some real competition, but it's just not there.

 

[merc85]

Card board inside, Dull exterior and once the 0-60 gets boring your left with a Mundane overpriced milk float,

No thanks i'll keep my Supercharged v8 doesn't matter how old that gets it will always turn heads like all Mercedes do Electric or otherwise.

 

[Screwdriver]

No thanks i'll keep my Supercharged v8 doesn't matter how old that gets it will always turn heads like all Mercedes do Electric or otherwise.

There was a time when that was accurate. Most modern German cars don't really stand out from the crowd anymore. That's why I own 4 Classics

 

[flowrider]

There was a time when that was accurate. Most modern German cars don't really stand out from the crowd anymore. That's why I own 4 Classics

What are your classics?

 

[grober]

New UK EV and AFV Registrations - SMMT monthly data

BEVs appear to be increasing in popularity and I suspect the figures would be more marked if availability wasn't an issue.

ps perhaps also shows diesels continuing fall from grace

 

[st13phil]

New UK EV and AFV Registrations - SMMT monthly data

BEVs appear to be increasing in popularity and I supect the figures would be greater if availability wasn't an issue.

So a doubling from eff-all to twice eff-all?

 

[Screwdriver]

W115, W123, W124 and W126. And a Classic Mini Cooper but that's wasn't German till much later.

 

[bpsorrel]

Read the US reports about Tesla "quality". Awful.

Out of curiosity I went to the Milton Keynes "showroom" in the shopping centre and took a look at the Model 3. Horrible inside, acres of plastic and a huge iPad stuck to the so called dashboard. I looked around the car and noticed loads of quality issues that I wouldn't accept on a Dacia Duster let alone a "premium - uhum.." car.

Rather have a new Peugeot e208..

 

[Tonygw]

Has anybody worked out what percentage of your time you would spend charging an EV compared to actually driving an EV. I would imagine it might put things into perspective..

Compared to filling up an ICE vehicle to actually driving one.. ;-)

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Has anybody worked out what percentage of your time you would spend charging an EV compared to actually driving an EV. I would imagine it might put things into perspective..

Compared to filling up an ICE vehicle to actually driving one.. ;-)

I suppose it depends where you are charging up.

If it's at home overnight while I am sleeping then it can take as long as it likes within reason.

If it's at a motorway service station then more than 15 minutes could be inconvenient.

EV suits my usage currently (Currently)! as my journeys tend to be short, I have chosen not to take the plunge as I'm as addicted to ICE as the rest of you, however, I appreciate that the time will come.

 

[Tonygw]

I guess its coming eventually, but as an example, the new jag I pace takes 30 plus hours to charge from a domestic 3KW charger or 45 hours from a three pin domestic plug... from their web site..:-
Your guide to Home Charging Points | Jaguar I-PACE | Jaguar UK
Thats a bit more than over night....

With range comes great charge times...

 

[grober]

Delving a little deeper JAGUAR actually recommend a 7Kw domestic charger for a full charge in 13 hours. equating to a 22 miles per hour "range addition" rate of charge. Just as when you fill your tank with petrol you don't necessarily expect to empty it all in one day and the average daily car journey is around 25-30 miles -- topping up for 3-5 hours of charge overnight is easily going to maintain battery capacity if not increase it slightly. Of course if you are commuting/driving 100-200 miles + per day an EV is unlikely to fullfill that need but most people recognise this and choose to an IC vehicle accordingly.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Has anybody worked out what percentage of your time you would spend charging an EV compared to actually driving an EV. I would imagine it might put things into perspective..

Compared to filling up an ICE vehicle to actually driving one.. ;-)

Probably less time than parked at home/at work/ at the station, leaking £notes...

 

[merc85]

There was a time when that was accurate. Most modern German cars don't really stand out from the crowd anymore. That's why I own 4 Classics

Correct Sir, But as it is a Supecharged v8 AMG Estate it will always be more appreciated than a Modern Plastic S*** box.

As far enthusiasts go anyway.

Tesla's have more in common with fridges and microwaves, fine a 3 years then fit for the bin imho, about as interesting as either to.

 

[unimog]

Said it before and I'm afraid its needs to be said again.... where is all this electric coming from? Granted an EV is more efficient but we already don't have energy to meet daily demands.

Musk and the collective EU governments have been watching too much Waynes World, 'If you build it they will come'. It might, but it won't be affordable. Added to which they now want to ban Gas fired heating by 2035, I don't think, I know the people in charge have no idea or comprehension of the statements they are making and the costs they are committing the taxpayer to for their own self righteous beliefs. These people are Morons, quod erat demonstrandum.

So again, where is the electric coming from? Do those in charge know how many giga watt hours will be needed to replace the the heating capacity of natural gas (11.8kcal/g from memory)? Plus adding 40-50 million electric cars? Fag packet sums show this is 400% more than we currently use by 2035. Moving the energy source somewhere else and claiming to be green isn't being green. As Kermit famously sang, its not easy being green....

Below is a picture of my old house in Sheffield, 5th largest city in the country. Awful parking by the neighbours aside, nearly 67% of the UK housing stock is terraced or has no parking and with the government about to ban parking such as this (necessary in Sheffield as the roads are narrow) the question needs to be answered where are all the charging points going to go? The best way to charge a car is through micro generation (this is the ONLY green solution for electric cars) and this could be easy, and would be a superior use of subsidy instead reducing the price or VED of the vehicle, but if you can't park it, how is this achievable? Do we need to start demolishing old narrow terrace streets now as they don't suit modern living? (tried that in the 60's with high rise and that didn't go down too well). All of this means more ££££££ for the average person who is already heavily burden with low wages and high taxes, and the most annoying thing about Tesla owners/EV fanatical's is the smugness that comes across, the 'I can afford to be different but I'm now going to make sure the rules are changed thereby making it much harder for you to reach my level' in typical right on liberal elitist style.

What is clear, a lot more thought is required before launching policies, making sweeping statements and setting unrealistic goals. The way in which people live needs changing long before what the drive does, and I don't see the current plan as viable. It's going to leave a lot more people a lot worse off.

 

[Fununcle]

Said it before and I'm afraid its needs to be said again.... where is all this electric coming from? Granted an EV is more efficient but we already don't have energy to meet daily demands.

Musk and the collective EU governments have been watching too much Waynes World, 'If you build it they will come'. It might, but it won't be affordable. Added to which they now want to ban Gas fired heating by 2035, I don't think, I know the people in charge have no idea or comprehension of the statements they are making and the costs they are committing the taxpayer to for their own self righteous beliefs. These people are Morons, quod erat demonstrandum.

So again, where is the electric coming from? Do those in charge know how many giga watt hours will be needed to replace the the heating capacity of natural gas (11.8kcal/g from memory)? Plus adding 40-50 million electric cars? Fag packet sums show this is 400% more than we currently use by 2035. Moving the energy source somewhere else and claiming to be green isn't being green. As Kermit famously sang, its not easy being green....

Below is a picture of my old house in Sheffield, 5th largest city in the country. Awful parking by the neighbours aside, nearly 67% of the UK housing stock is terraced or has no parking and with the government about to ban parking such as this (necessary in Sheffield as the roads are narrow) the question needs to be answered where are all the charging points going to go? The best way to charge a car is through micro generation (this is the ONLY green solution for electric cars) and this could be easy, and would be a superior use of subsidy instead reducing the price or VED of the vehicle, but if you can't park it, how is this achievable? Do we need to start demolishing old narrow terrace streets now as they don't suit modern living? (tried that in the 60's with high rise and that didn't go down too well). All of this means more ££££££ for the average person who is already heavily burden with low wages and high taxes, and the most annoying thing about Tesla owners/EV fanatical's is the smugness that comes across, the 'I can afford to be different but I'm now going to make sure the rules are changed thereby making it much harder for you to reach my level' in typical right on liberal elitist style.

What is clear, a lot more thought is required before launching policies, making sweeping statements and setting unrealistic goals. The way in which people live needs changing long before what the drive does, and I don't see the current plan as viable. It's going to leave a lot more people a lot worse off.

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Speaking of sweeping statements, you suggest that we currently don't have enough energy to cover our daily usage. I'm not aware of blackouts across the country, what is being shut down because of the lack of power?