AUSTRIAN Grand Prix

[c_200k]

IMO NR doesn't deserve the WC, He's proven he can't take the heat and ends up spittin the dummy out everytime.

Few times he's been challanged he's ended up making mistakes or doing something stupid.

 

[400ixl]

And LH doesn't? Such as sulking at the Monaco GP last year.

All as bad as each other, but then they wouldn't be racing drivers if they didn't have a spat at losing out.

He is error prone under pressure though. LH wouldn't have been close enough to challenge if he hadn't made a mistake and gone off a few laps before.

 

[MUGGY]

As posted earlier and exactly correct the drivers are paid to win the constructors championship not the drivers championship. If the action of one driver endangers that position they will be severely reprimanded. Hamilton did exactly that there was no need for him to overtake they should have brought it home in a 1 - 2 formation but his ego is bigger than his brain which makes him incapable of doing that, there is no doubt in the MB team who is not the team player, this is a TEAM sport not an individual competition the ultimate aim is for the team to win and you cant do that long term with driver attitudes like MB have at present.

Sorry but F1 is boring enough as it is. You have given your Silverstone tickets away. Team orders ? LH is the faster driver and 3 times WC - give him the no.1 driver ticket.

Lewis Hamilton puts bums on seats and viewers on TV.

If Toto doesn't want Lewis to overtake maybe he should take a little more care with the strategy that put him behind in the first place.

The public doesn't care about teams (Ferrari the exception). The public care about drivers. Mercedes would do well to remember that.

 

[Dryce]

As posted earlier and exactly correct the drivers are paid to win the constructors championship not the drivers championship.

I hear this often.

I think it's a F1 myth to appease the psychology of great teams and their principals and make sure they are pre-eminent over tghe drivers.

At the end of the day is Sauber win the driver's WC but Ferrari win the constructor's WC then nobody outside the teams and a few hardcore fans will notice that Ferrari won a WC. The driver and Sauber will be the ones remembered for that year.

And yes this situation is probably irksome for the teams. The likes of Mercede have a car that is good enough that they could probably fire both LH and NR and win the constructors' championship with the pick of at least half of the remaining drivers on the grid.

 

[ShinyF1]

I'm not a great LH fan, but I agree with the 60/40 assessment earlier. He was daft to turn in, akin to the Prost move on Senna in Suzuka in '89. LH needs the points so it was at best very risky. NR was wrong, but LH should have anticipated it.

The clever LH move would have been to not turn in and let NR understeer wide, then get inside him on the exit and down the next straight, where he would have had DRS help anyway.

But in heated moment in the cockpit....?

 

[brucemillar]

I hear this often.


And yes this situation is probably irksome for the teams. The likes of Mercede have a car that is good enough that they could probably fire both LH and NR and win the constructors' championship with the pick of at least half of the remaining drivers on the grid.

Correct. I think that Flango is correct and LH will not be with them for long. The known rule is "never stuff up a 1/2 for the team that you drive for" Or as Toto says "Brainless"

 

[ShinyF1]

....The likes of Mercedes have a car that is good enough that they could probably fire both LH and NR and win the constructors' championship with the pick of at least half of the remaining drivers on the grid.

How true

 

[flango]

You have given your Silverstone tickets away. Team orders ? .

No sh*te racing and sh*te cars until they take those washing machine motors out of F1 you wont see me at another race, thats why I gave my tickets away to someone that will appreciate it more than I do, they were full VIP tickets as well staying on circuit in a motorhome. No point in me going when I don't enjoy it may as well give someone else the experience they can't buy. This is the 3rd season I have not watched an F1 race I just look at the incidents on you tube.

 

[grober]

(The reason I point this out was that I saw a comment about NR going 'straight on' when you could see this steering wheel was at an angle).

I had the impression that NR's fronts were not up to much and LH was losing out on rear grip.

I think this is a 60:40. Both knew what they were doing and NR knew he was going to run wide and understeered whereas LH wasn't going to give him and inch (and probably oversteered a bit).

This very issue was addressed in the post race analysis on Channel 4 F1.
They showed you Rosberg's cornering line in that corner on the previous lap and while not exactly "clipping the apex" his turn in was much tighter indicating that he did not need to go into the corner so deep as he did the next time round . This indicates he deliberately ran wide to force Hamilton off the track. Unfortunately when the red mist descends it tends to be Rosberg who miscalculates the intentions/actions of the driver he is competing with. While forcing Hamilton to run wide could be said to be a legitimate racing tactic perhaps his mistake was to think Hamilton was going to let him get away with it.

 

[WDB124066]

No sh*te racing and sh*te cars until they take those washing machine motors out of F1 you wont see me at another race, thats why I gave my tickets away to someone that will appreciate it more than I do, they were full VIP tickets as well staying on circuit in a motorhome. No point in me going when I don't enjoy it may as well give someone else the experience they can't buy. This is the 3rd season I have not watched an F1 race I just look at the incidents on you tube.

The move by the owners and promotors of Taupo's Bruce McLaren Motorsport Park to revive the classic F1 vs F5000 Race of Champions format at its new meeting over the January 28-29 weekend will give the 2016/17 series another major boost.

The original F1 vs F5000 Race of Champions ran at the Brands Hatch circuit near London from 1965 to 1983 and attracted top drivers from both categories.
It holds special significance for F5000 owners, drivers and category fans here and around the world because in 1973 British ace Peter Gethin beat F1 drivers Denny Hulme (McLaren), James Hunt (Hesketh) and Tony Trimmer (Iso-Marlboro) to the line in his Chevron B24 F5000 car.
That car - now owned and raced by UK-based NZ series regular Greg Thornton - and an example of the McLaren M23 which Kiwi Denny Hulme drove to second place are expected at the meeting.


See you there...??

http://www3.hilton.com/en/hotels/ne...adgroupid=5294417081&targetid=kwd-14059453201

 

[Bellow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7hAUAtg_BXI#t=142

2min 22s.
One at the track edge turning, the other not.

 

[brucemillar]

This very issue was addressed in the post race analysis on Channel 4 F1.
They showed you Rosberg's cornering line in that corner on the previous lap and while not exactly "clipping the apex" his turn in was much tighter indicating that he did not need to go into the corner so deep as he did the next time round . This indicates he deliberately ran wide to force Hamilton off the track. Unfortunately when the red mist descends it tends to be Rosberg who miscalculates the intentions/actions of the driver he is competing with. While forcing Hamilton to run wide could be said to be a legitimate racing tactic perhaps his mistake was to think Hamilton was going to let him get away with it.

NR himself is quoted on the TV as saying "he knew he was going in deep as he was entitled to defend his position" he then went on to say "I was surprised that he chose to turn into me" & "he hit me"

LH said "I was wide and on the outside white line. I knew he was there, I could sense he was there, I turned in and he hit me"

LH was not as he stated on "white line" in fact he had over a cars width and a big run off.

LH banked on NR giving him room. NR banked on LH giving him room. Neither gave way = boom.

We are not in the car behind the wheel and TV gives a closeted perception of the real thing.

What we do not hear or see is what is said before the race behind closed doors. It is very likely that Mercedes along with all other teams will have told their drivers, whoever is leading on the last lap must not be challenged. Bring the cars home in one piece. That has been the mantra in F1 for many many years. Prost (who knows about this stuff) said after they last collided that this will happen again and again with them, unless Mercedes bring in team orders or get rid of one of them.


We have two huge ego's driving the two best cars on the grid. NR is desperate to win the championship. LH is equally determined to do so. If neither will gave way of their own accord then the team has to rule.

Toto stated "I thought and believed that we had agreement, then they go and do it again" He doesn't want team orders for the last lap. But I think he now accepts that without it they will risk the manufacturers title over the drivers title and the team will be a laughing stock.

 

[renault12ts]

If both are leading the championship and the team are assured of victory in the constructors, then let them battle it out.

 

[190]

I you had more millions than you knew what to do with and you had a chance to win a race how much notice would you take of team orders to give up that win ?

I don't think team orders will solve the problem.

 

[MUGGY]

NR himself is quoted on the TV as saying "he knew he was going in deep as he was entitled to defend his position" he then went on to say "I was surprised that he chose to turn into me" & "he hit me"

LH said "I was wide and on the outside white line. I knew he was there, I could sense he was there, I turned in and he hit me"

LH was not as he stated on "white line" in fact he had over a cars width and a big run off.

LH banked on NR giving him room. NR banked on LH giving him room. Neither gave way = boom.

We are not in the car behind the wheel and TV gives a closeted perception of the real thing.

What we do not hear or see is what is said before the race behind closed doors. It is very likely that Mercedes along with all other teams will have told their drivers, whoever is leading on the last lap must not be challenged. Bring the cars home in one piece. That has been the mantra in F1 for many many years. Prost (who knows about this stuff) said after they last collided that this will happen again and again with them, unless Mercedes bring in team orders or get rid of one of them.


We have two huge ego's driving the two best cars on the grid. NR is desperate to win the championship. LH is equally determined to do so. If neither will gave way of their own accord then the team has to rule.

Toto stated "I thought and believed that we had agreement, then they go and do it again" He doesn't want team orders for the last lap. But I think he now accepts that without it they will risk the manufacturers title over the drivers title and the team will be a laughing stock.

Firstly Hamilton was ahead on the racing line and turned in at the correct point only to find that Rosberg had made no attempt to give him room and take the corner. Hamilton then steers away from the contact off the track as Rosberg had left him no room.

Secondly Mercedes will win the Constructors Championship this year regardless.

Thirdly Mercedes risk angering F1 fans if they prevent them racing. They are already pissing me off !

 

[wrighty senior]

I know that a few of you have already decided that it was Hamilton's fault and you will not change your mind. However, I would suggest you consider the facts with no emotion:-
Hamilton (according to the rules of motor racing) was officially ahead of Rosberg - therefore, it was Rosberg's responsibility to avoid an accident.
Hamilton was out on the white line until well past the normal turning in point (he had to turn in at sometime or he would have missed the corner completely).
Rosberg not only missed the apex by a mile, he made no attempt to turn in at the correct time (this has nothing to do with any potential brake problem).
Running another car out wide is a normal racing move - it is done by coming alongside the other car and gently edging across the track wheel to wheel. Rosberg couldn't do this because he had already lost the corner - therefore he deliberately rammed Hamilton.
Rosberg had perfect vision of Hamilton's car he had slowed sufficiently he simply needed to turn the steering wheel. He chose not to. This is the second time he has made a deliberate and dangerous move on his own team mate this year. In my opinion he should have been excluded.

 

[stevehg]

Correct. I think that Flango is correct and LH will not be with them for long. The known rule is "never stuff up a 1/2 for the team that you drive for" Or as Toto says "Brainless"

Mmmmm brainless, an adjective I was thinking of when reading your posts. Or maybe just deluded. It's the only possible conclusions you can come to when somebody like you watched a video where everything is clear as day, and then argues the opposite.

 

[400ixl]

I know that a few of you have already decided that it was Hamilton's fault and you will not change your mind. However, I would suggest you consider the facts with no emotion:-
Hamilton (according to the rules of motor racing) was officially ahead of Rosberg - therefore, it was Rosberg's responsibility to avoid an accident.
Hamilton was out on the white line until well past the normal turning in point (he had to turn in at sometime or he would have missed the corner completely).
Rosberg not only missed the apex by a mile, he made no attempt to turn in at the correct time (this has nothing to do with any potential brake problem).
Running another car out wide is a normal racing move - it is done by coming alongside the other car and gently edging across the track wheel to wheel. Rosberg couldn't do this because he had already lost the corner - therefore he deliberately rammed Hamilton.
Rosberg had perfect vision of Hamilton's car he had slowed sufficiently he simply needed to turn the steering wheel. He chose not to. This is the second time he has made a deliberate and dangerous move on his own team mate this year. In my opinion he should have been excluded.

Reverse the exact situation for the first corner a couple of GP's ago and you could swap the names around, yet all the LH fans then claimed he was totally within his rights to not take the apex and to force NR to go off of the track.

That was probably the right call, but you can't pick and choose when you want it to be the right call. The only difference is one was the first lap, the other the last. So either LH was wrong when he did it and everyone who backed him should say so, or NR was right here.

Not fussed which way around it is, but it needs to be consistent and the fanboys either way shouldn't be inconsistent to their preferred driver.

So are you saying that Hamilton should have been excluded when he did it? Making it evens?

 

[stevehg]

There's a reason why that incident wasn't even investigated. It was a tight narrow corner where Hamilton was ahead and taking the normal racing line with no deviation.

So not the exact situation as you claim, and totally irrelevant as a comparison . I'm not a Hamilton fan, and think he's a bit of an ****, especially when out of the car. However, I don't let this cloud my judgement, like a number of people on this thread do.

 

[Doodle]

If this had been tin-top racing, would anyone have batted an eyelid?