AUSTRIAN Grand Prix

[tanuie]

No one mentioned NR brake problems, if there were any?

 

[lfckeeper]

Whilst the race stewards may disagree, I think this was Hamiltons fault (again!). My fear with Lewis Hamiltons 'style' he will eventually cause a serious accident. He seems to race (and seemingly behave if his petulant radio communication about tyres is anything to go by) like a spoilt child.

 

[brucemillar]

Having won championships LH knows they aren't won by finishing behind the guy leading the championship. He had to pass. It's what he's paid to do - win championships.

AGreed. If you insert NR instead of LH the same rules apply. That is the issue. NR will not cede his lead just because LH is thinking he will come through. They could agree before starting the race AKA Coulthard and Hakkinen. That also ended in tears when Hakkinen "forgot"the agreement a few races later on in that season.


Are you really saying the NR should have simply stopped and let LH through? He did so in Monaco when requested by the team. There was no request here.

For sure he drove into LH but will claim that he had the lead and the line. The Stewards will always win that is what they there to do.

 

[MicB]

I think the stewards got it exactly right.

They did enough to acknowledge that the incident was down to Nico but that it was nonetheless an incident born of competitive racing which is exactly what sells the product. They also did enough, but not too much, such that Nico did not lose his place nor any points thereby not unnecessarily influencing the competitiveness of the driver's championship between the leading contenders.

The product is alive and well........bring it on.

Mic

 

[jotter22]

AGreed. If you insert NR instead of LH the same rules apply. That is the issue. NR will not cede his lead just because LH is thinking he will come through. They could agree before starting the race AKA Coulthard and Hakkinen. That also ended in tears when Hakkinen "forgot"the agreement a few races later on in that season.


Are you really saying the NR should have simply stopped and let LH through? He did so in Monaco when requested by the team. There was no request here.

For sure he drove into LH but will claim that he had the lead and the line. The Stewards will always win that is what they there to do.

With the lead and the racing line how is it possible to still hit LH amidships?
NR made no attempt at the corner until he was sure he would hit LH!
Watch the footage again! What can;t speak can't lie!

Tony.

Tony.

 

[brucemillar]

With the lead and the racing line how is it possible to still hit LH amidships?
NR made no attempt at the corner until he was sure he would hit LH!
Watch the footage again! What can;t speak can't lie!

Tony.

Tony.

.....and equally. LH knowing the NR was there (and he accepts that he did know he was there) still turned in knowing he would have the accident.

 

[Bellow]

I think you will find he is paid to win the team the constructors championship. The individual championship is a bonus and they are pretty much guaranteed that one of their drivers will win that.

Hence why Toto was so livid, the incident could have put both cars out putting at risk the primary objective of the team.

Do the spectators cheer on individual drivers - or teams?

Are you really saying the NR should have simply stopped and let LH through? He did so in Monaco when requested by the team.

Nope. Merely refrain from running him off the track.
LH was on the white line with no where to go but off the track whereas NR had all the space - but failed to use it.

For sure he drove into LH but will claim that he had the lead and the line. .

He had neither.
LH was ahead as the entered the turn and still, rather than squeeze NR, LH left him plenty space. LH had the 'line', NR just could not accept that - so drove LH out.
NR appears to believe that leading the race for most of it qualifies him for victory. LH knows it's who crosses the line on the last lap that wins.

 

[grober]

Judge for yourself.
[YOUTUBE HD]7hAUAtg_BXI[/YOUTUBE HD]

I have a suspicion that Rosberg developed a "posthumous" brake problem. He had been forced to go on to the ultra soft [ red]tyres because he had used up all his soft [ yellow] tyres in practice and qualifying. I surmise the ultra softs performance had dropped off markedly by the last lap allowing Lewis to catch Rosberg up. At the corner in question he deliberately ran wide in an attempt to force Hamilton off the track. Unfortunately for him Hamilton was to certain extent blind sided with his drivers slight line ahead of Rosberg and failed to move out with the resulting collision which damaged Rosberg's front wing. In a collision like this it could have gone either way- Hamilton's rear tyre or suspension might have been damaged and he spun out. In this case I think the result of the collision reflected badly on the person causing the accident. It could have easily gone the other way.

 

[MUGGY]

Unbelievable some on here are defending Rosberg and blaming Hamilton

 

[brucemillar]

We will argue here more than LH and NR on a bad day ;ˆ) Grobers still shot highlights the view of many. LH is NOT anywhere near the white line he claimed to be. He has more than a cars width left to his outside but chose to turn in when he "knew" he was there "I knew and I sensed he was there" said LH "but yes I turned in and he hit me"

Two drivers both wanting to win and neither prepared to lose to the other. Brundle summed it up when said that NR knew that giving up that corner was giving his race. Lewis would have known this and would have expected NR not to give up anymore than he himself would have done.

They need team orders to stop this otherwise it will happen again. TW now accepts this. TW called them both "brainless". Why? He knows that either one of them or both of them could have avoided this and not lost the team a 1/2. As he said they could have lost the team everything only luck saw one car badly damaged.

Was it not LH who once said "You don't pass me round the outside - No way"

 

[400ixl]

Do the spectators cheer on individual drivers - or teams?

That's changing the statement you made. He is paid to win the team championship.

And actually many stay as loyal to a brand as they do to a driver, so the answer is both, but agree that more follow a successful driver of their nationality.So in the UK that would be Hamilton, whereas in mainland Europe where there is more alignment to Germany that would be Rosberg. Hence the booing of Hamilton on the podium in Austria.

Making no judgement on the incident, just giving a view on the priority of the team and their view of the world.

 

[bob6600]

Deliberate mistake grober?

I have a suspicion that Rosberg developed a "posthumous" brake problem. He had been forced to go on to the ultra soft [ red]tyres

Super soft are red striped

Ultra soft are purple striped

 

[CaptainRAVE]

.....and equally. LH knowing the NR was there (and he accepts that he did know he was there) still turned in knowing he would have the accident.

What is he meant to do, keep going into the barriers?

 

[jotter22]

Look at grobers picture there was more chance of me clipping the apex from my sofa than NR in his car!

Tony.

 

[grober]

Deliberate mistake grober?



Super soft are red striped

Ultra soft are purple striped

Fair enough but the tyre issue remains the same.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

They need team orders to stop this

I REALLY hope that doesn't happen Bruce. Allowing the Mercs to race is one of the few exciting things left in current F1 given its the best car.

Imagine the last 10 laps of that race if they'd have told them both to hold station? Might well just finish behind the safety car.

As someone said, no matter who was right or wrong, it made for an exciting finish to the race, something that's been missing for a long time.

Long may it continue. Remember the 4 years of RB dominance. Seb No. 1. At least we've seen Lewis and Nico battle it out which is been great for us fans.

Ant.

 

[Dryce]

He seems to race (and seemingly behave if his petulant radio communication about tyres is anything to go by) like a spoilt child.

For a three times world champion I think he's actually done reasonably well in terms of how clean he has kept it on track. And he's been treated badly by the stewards on a few occasions. He's a forceful driver. He can come across as a bit petulant on the radio but that's beteen him and his team. But I think SV and particularly MS have been worse at times.

NR suffers from always being compared with LH. Always. If he gets the driver's WC this year then he people will still say it was only because LH had problems. If anything happens on track then more questions will be asked of him in any racing incident.

What we saw yesterday was not much more than a racing incident. I have no doubt NR went into the corner with the intent of being forceful and to push LH outside. It didn't work out quite that way because LH is equally forceful - he probably knew what was going to happen and figured he's win out psychologically.

NR *needs* the driver's WC whereas LH merely wants it.

 

[brucemillar]

What is he meant to do, keep going into the barriers?

I think what TOTO would say is he should have known the outcome and not tried the overtake. Would he have gone into the barriers? No he had plenty of room as we see in the video.

You miss the point that LH makes when he says " Sure I knew he was there and I turned in"

Are you saying then that NR knowing that LH was there should have stopped his car and waved him through? Maybe the other nineteen drivers should take note and when the lights go red they all wait a few minutes to be sure that LH is off down the road. Then as he comes around to lap them, they all pull onto the grass. That way if LH ever finds himself in a position where "nobody passes me on the outside no way" they will all let him through.

The point is simple. It is a team sport - we know this. They are trying to winds a team. Two drivers at the top of their game with less than a lap to run will inevitably come together unless there are team orders. Blaming one driver over another will not stop this. It's only a few weeks since some people on here were blaming NR for Hamilton spearing NR off the track using the exact same arguments that they now use in reverse.

Hamilton knew that there was was every possibility and some that NR would not cede the corner to him? In the same way that he himself would never do to NR. Knowing this he still went for the pass and knowing that NR had not given up he still turned in.

If you expect NR to lift or move put his way then you must expect that LH would apply the same. You cannot have it one way ;ˆ)

 

[flango]

As posted earlier and exactly correct the drivers are paid to win the constructors championship not the drivers championship. If the action of one driver endangers that position they will be severely reprimanded. Hamilton did exactly that there was no need for him to overtake they should have brought it home in a 1 - 2 formation but his ego is bigger than his brain which makes him incapable of doing that, there is no doubt in the MB team who is not the team player, this is a TEAM sport not an individual competition the ultimate aim is for the team to win and you cant do that long term with driver attitudes like MB have at present.

 

[Dryce]

Judge for yourself.

[ .... deleted ... ]

At the corner in question he deliberately ran wide in an attempt to force Hamilton off the track.

The image only really tells the story of the resulting angles of the cars. Both drivers left hands are high in the cockpit so both are steering into the corner.

(The reason I point this out was that I saw a comment about NR going 'straight on' when you could see this steering wheel was at an angle).

I had the impression that NR's fronts were not up to much and LH was losing out on rear grip.

I think this is a 60:40. Both knew what they were doing and NR knew he was going to run wide and understeered whereas LH wasn't going to give him and inch (and probably oversteered a bit).