Autotrader W124 Coupe E320

[david_h]

Went to see this today (link below)

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ww...category=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200708271583276

good points

Interior is mint
Car paint is mint, in fact disconcertingly so
All the windows work

Bad points
Needs tensioner doing
Walked away as gearbox has lovely oil leak
rear quarter and other side both been painted
under heavy braking the rear squirms (the dealer admitted this)
front arches had surface rust but dealer has rubbed them down and touched them up.

Didn't test the aircon though, was too put off by gearbox issue, for £4k it's toppy imho, but a very very pretty car.

 

[BenzComander]

Would the warranty not have sorted the gearbox??

 

[david_h]

Would the warranty not have sorted the gearbox??

Maybe, no idea.

was a serious leak though.

In hindsight I should probably have test driven it. If it's still there after I've sold my car I'll go back.

Very very clean car which always puts me off somewhat.

 

[Will]

Looks nice

Where abouts was the gearbox leaking from?

Will

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

david_h wrote:

> Needs tensioner doing


How did you know that?

It's a genuine question.

 

[grober]

For £4000 it should not be requiring any work. The front arches rust will come through again and is a good indicator of the rest of the cars body deterioration with the years. The "tensioner " is noisy? Is that the POLY V BELT tensioner or the timing chain tensioner?? Rear squirming could be down to shockers gone or subframe mountings gone or rear suspension link bushes gone OR all of the above. To sort all the potential problems you would have to knock £1500- 2000 off the asking price IMHO .

 

[david_h]

For £4000 it should not be requiring any work. The front arches rust will come through again and is a good indicator of the rest of the cars body deterioration with the years. The "tensioner " is noisy? Is that the POLY V BELT tensioner or the timing chain tensioner?? Rear squirming could be down to shockers gone or subframe mountings gone or rear suspension link bushes gone OR all of the above. To sort all the potential problems you would have to knock £1500- 2000 off the asking price IMHO .

poly v-belt tensioner lose, just like on my C280.

I walked for exactly that reason, but I have to realise it's a car that's over 12 years old, it's never going to be perfect.

Someone will fall in love with it, buy it, then spend £2k fixing all the faults.
It's a pain changing all the suframe mountings and bushes, something I coudl do without.

After seeing this one, thinking it was about as mint as I'm ever going to find, I've decided a W124 coupe is just too old a car for my daily runner.

Gearbox covered in oil on lower casing, dripping from front sections quite badly.

 

[Ian B Walker]

I've decided a W124 coupe is just too old a car for my daily runner.

Gearbox covered in oil on lower casing, dripping from front sections quite badly.

For a daily runner I cannot think of a better car

Is this dripping from the pan seal or the input bearing?

 

[Howard]

Me neither ....

Much less to actually go wrong on them than more modern Mercs ..

Been using mine as a daily driver for 4 years now, it's never broken down or let me down ...

 

[fatherpierre]

Snap.

Starts on the button, takes 20k miles per year with zero fuss and sits at 130mph in silence if required.

The best car I have ever had.

 

[Will]

I agree as well, the jobs that the car in question requires are nothing of great magnitude, it's just a lack of servicing investment on the previous owner's part

If you buy a good example that is up to scratch, it shouldn't cost a fortune to keep it that way

They are out there too

Best of luck with the search.

Will

 

[big x]

One weakness on the M104 IL 6 engine is the MK I coil over spark plug design.A fault in the coil will spike the coil driver in the ECU and destroy it.Same with other makes that used this Bosch design.Later more sophisticated designs like my E39 BMW will shut down the circuit for ECU self preservation.
Other more well known faults on these later cars are:
Oil leaks from the front upper timing case lip seal.A minor problem.
Leaking headgaskets rear right.A new headgasket will eventually be needed.
Insulation breaking down on the engine wiring loom.
Front wishbone bushes last well but need complete new wishbones as the bushes are non-replaceable on the later cars.
Rusted out rear jacking points.
Rusted front wings.
Speedo cable failure knocks out the speedo.
Soft water based paint.
Wiper relay fails on the intermittent setting.
Rear engine output seals often leak slightly.
Front springs fracture at the extreme top and bottom wind which MOT testers often miss.
Air pumps become noisy and seize jamming the front v-belt

Strong points would be:
Long lasting exhaust and cats.
Very robust interiors.
Excellent spares availability
The most reliable automatic transmission ever made
The E320 is a quick car.
Although no sports car handling wise these cars are good cruisers.
The original Bilstein dampers last forever.

adam

 

[imadoofus]

One weakness on the M104 IL 6 engine is the MK I coil over spark plug design.A fault in the coil will spike the coil driver in the ECU and destroy it.Same with other makes that used this Bosch design.Later more sophisticated designs like my E39 BMW will shut down the circuit for ECU self preservation.

Mine did this recently, and the cost was £130 for new coil packs, £27 for new plug extenders, and £340-odd for an ECU rebuild.

Also then found out the MAS had gone too, so that's another £260 plus VAT

PJ

And the water pump...

 

[Subyland]

Insulation breaking down on the engine wiring loom.

Very true and another expensive job as loom is about £500+vat and they all go. I've had to change mine at 150k and a mate of mine had to change his @ 40k only. It goes with time, not mileage.

 

[bolide]

I agree as well, the jobs that the car in question requires are nothing of great magnitude, it's just a lack of servicing investment on the previous owner's part

I'd say it was typical of cars that don't get used enough. Given the mileage it's probably been a second or third car for a few years

In my book, low mileage = nice paint + not enough servicing

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[kth286]

M104 IL 6 (3.2litre) engine does not have a weekness with the coil being over the spark plugs.

A fault with a coil WILL automatically shut down the affected cylinder and injection so that no petrol is sent to the non sparking cylinder only.

The problem with these engines is the wiring loom. Tha fact they degrade and the insulation breaks away when the cables are moved for a spark plug change.
Because the insulation has fallen away the feeds to the coils short out on start up and can blow the coil and the output driver in the main engine ECU.

That is the problem - the loom degradation.

On any similar engine a coil can fail on it's own accord and with the Merc engine it will cause the ECU to close down the inputs to that cylinder/s.

imadoofus

All your coils will not have blown, so do not know why you are changing them all. (Probably because your tech is not capable of testing which one has gone - if any).
Are you not getting the loom changed, as I thought on a previous post that was the reason you were sending it to the tech on this occasion after playing with it for so long.

If the loom has never been changed it needs to be, whilst other work is being done.

Oil leaks around head gasket this engine are often caused by owners over filling.

A Merc tech bulletin is specific about not filling more than half way between min and max mark on dipstick.

 

[big x]

M104 IL 6 (3.2litre) engine does not have a weekness with the coil being over the spark plugs.

A fault with a coil WILL automatically shut down the affected cylinder and injection so that no petrol is sent to the non sparking cylinder only.

The problem with these engines is the wiring loom. Tha fact they degrade and the insulation breaks away when the cables are moved for a spark plug change.
Because the insulation has fallen away the feeds to the coils short out on start up and can blow the coil and the output driver in the main engine ECU.

That is the problem - the loom degradation.

On any similar engine a coil can fail on it's own accord and with the Merc engine it will cause the ECU to close down the inputs to that cylinder/s.

imadoofus

All your coils will not have blown, so do not know why you are changing them all. (Probably because your tech is not capable of testing which one has gone - if any).
Are you not getting the loom changed, as I thought on a previous post that was the reason you were sending it to the tech on this occasion after playing with it for so long.

If the loom has never been changed it needs to be, whilst other work is being done.

Oil leaks around head gasket this engine are often caused by owners over filling.

A Merc tech bulletin is specific about not filling more than half way between min and max mark on dipstick.

Sorry I disagree about the ECU coil drive design.Yes it's true only one coil fails at a time though.

adam

 

[imadoofus]

One of my coil packs sent an over-volt to the ECU, blowing it. Or at least that's what I was told by the people who rebuilt it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with my loom. That has been confirmed by three different specialists.

PJ

 

[kth286]

big x

The M104 is a fantastic design - very advanced when it was launched.

For example, if one of the knock sensors detected a "pingng cylinder" the ECU would retard just the "pinging cylinder" and keep the other cylinders at the most advanced they could be. This ensured that the engine would still produce it's optimum power.

With other cars, including other Mercs of the time, the whole engine would be retarded, thus loosing power.

Just ONE example of the advanced nature of the engine and it's management.

Afterall this engine in the W124 was really a proving ground ready for installation in the ground breaking W210 E class of the time.

 

[big x]

big x

The M104 is a fantastic design - very advanced when it was launched.

For example, if one of the knock sensors detected a "pingng cylinder" the ECU would retard just the "pinging cylinder" and keep the other cylinders at the most advanced they could be. This ensured that the engine would still produce it's optimum power.

With other cars, including other Mercs of the time, the whole engine would be retarded, thus loosing power.

Just ONE example of the advanced nature of the engine and it's management.

Afterall this engine in the W124 was really a proving ground ready for installation in the ground breaking W210 E class of the time.

I know, I ran a W124 E320 until last month, a fine engine.I wouldn't call the W210 ground breaking the BMW E39 beat it in every road test.

adam