Axial run out... again!

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DemetrisNic

New Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
13
Location
Cyprus
Car
C250 AMG
Hi all,

I own a MB C250 AMG, which I bought as an approved used in early 2019. The car every 1500 needs new front brake disks, due to axial run out. The car has 30K miles and now that I am studying the service history, i found out that the car in on its fifth set of front disk brakes! The car, from day one, it is regularly service only in authorised dealerships. In January 2019 the car got new disk brakes and then it was delivered to me. I am currently located to Cyprus and in May 2019, 1500 miles after i bought the car I have noticed too much vibration under braking and after taking the car to the MB General Distributor, new brake disks went onto the car due to axial run out of the previous set. 1500 miles later... the same happened. The dealership now suggested to change the disks again, together with new hydro mounts - the ones for the 4matic models - without any guarantee that the axial run out won't happen again. They say that the factory doesn't have a solution for this problem yet. Any ideas? Thank you.
 
Hi... a gentle reminder. Any ideas? My car is at the dealership garage and it needs new brake disks and pads. They cannot guarantee that I won’t end up with warped disks again in 1500 miles. What should I do? The car is currently heavily vibrating under braking and it cannot me driven. Thanks.
 
I wonder if it’s ever been heavily “curbed” or hit a big pothole - maybe damage to a stub axle (distortion) or bearing?

Are there any buckles/run out on the wheel rim when it is mounted and spun (DTI gauge)

Can a full laser geometry check be done (not just wheel alignment) to check camber and caster too.

Have the callipers been checked for sticking pistons, slide pins etc.
 
Hi! Thank you for the answers. Everything was checked on the car! There is no difference if cold or hot.

Please note the below facts:
1st set of front brake discs on the date of purchase
2nd set on 10/2017 at 23.736 miles
3rd set on 1/2019 at 26.668 miles
4th set on 5/2019 at 29.217 miles
5th set now 51.747 kilometres 32.154 miles
(All of the above are fully documented )

From the above, it is obvious that there is definitely something wrong, either with the disc brakes or with something else. Of course, I believe that there could possibly be a lot more replacements during these four years as many times the invoices for such replacements are not disclosed to the factory but I don’t have any evidence to support this. Also replacements that are covered under the goodwill of the company are not communicated/visible to me.

Does anyone face the same problem? Anyone tried the single piece disk brakes by Brebo than the two piece from MB?

The General Distributor of MB in Cyprus told me that after contacting the factory, there isn't a solution at the moment that could solve permanently the problem!!!
 
The W205 FRONT HUB appears to have a different design of front hub from the old stub axle and twin taper floating bearings most MB owners are familiar with. Instead a front bearing "cassette" is bolted to the suspension upright/ knuckle- there is no adjustment only replacement. I suspect this is to facilitate using the same suspension for 4 matic models with a different hub cassette. There has been at least one replacement for this component from A2053340200 to A2053340400 . Since when assembled, the hub and disc share "runout" a faulty hub cassette may explain your disc runnout or cause premature warping? Has the car ever had its hub/bearings cassettes replaced?
Can't be sure this applies to your car because you didn't post your chassis no???????????????????????

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20190711094918_80556.jpg
 
The W205 FRONT HUB appears to have a different design of front hub from the old stub axle and twin taper floating bearings most MB owners are familiar with. Instead a front bearing "cassette" is bolted to the suspension upright/ knuckle- there is no adjustment only replacement. I suspect this is to facilitate using the same suspension for 4 matic models with a different hub cassette. There has been at least one replacement for this component from A2053340200 to A2053340400 . Since when assembled, the hub and disc share "runout" a faulty hub cassette may explain your disc runnout or cause premature warping? Has the car ever had its hub/bearings cassettes replaced?
Can't be sure this applies to your car because you didn't post your chassis no???????????????????????

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20190711094918_80556.jpg
Thanks!
WDD2050082R058777
 
There will be a way to check bearing runout altho it may not show up except under load= vehicle's weight resting on its wheels- how this is achieved will be detailed in WIS [ Mercedes workshop information system] which your MB dealer should have access to. If their EPC [ parts system] is up to date it should detail any new replacement parts. They should also check the car's history to see if the bearing cassettes have ever been subject to a recall or been replaced? If the fault does not lie with the brakes the obvious next thing to check are the front wheel bearings
 
HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF HUB RUNOUT.
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AND ROTOR RUNOUT
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I can't believe you are going through all this. This stuff just doesn't happen on a normally set up car. My CLS55 with 8 piston calipers ran the original discs for 58000 miles.
Your dealer doesn't know what he is doing and / or has sold you a car with a history of known defects.I don't know Cyprus consumer law but check it out.
 
HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF HUB RUNOUT.
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AND ROTOR RUNOUT
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Thank you. They said that they have double checked everything. I will point out the bearing cassettes!
 
If it was a faulty / damaged / worn cassette then surely a brand new set of discs would causing the vibration from the start , not just after 1500 miles ?

Normally the warping of (decent) discs is due to excessive heat and to damage a set of discs in just 1500m there must have been some obvious signs of this , either through the car dragging one of its wheels or "that" smell of metal overheating.

Looks like your spanner guy is clueless and I would be looking for someone new to work on your car.

Are you being charged for the discs and garage time ?

Are the pads worn evenly ?

K
 
If it was a faulty / damaged / worn cassette then surely a brand new set of discs would causing the vibration from the start , not just after 1500 miles ?

Normally the warping of (decent) discs is due to excessive heat and to damage a set of discs in just 1500m there must have been some obvious signs of this , either through the car dragging one of its wheels or "that" smell of metal overheating.

Looks like your spanner guy is clueless and I would be looking for someone new to work on your car.

Are you being charged for the discs and garage time ?

Are the pads worn evenly ?

K
Good thinking. In my scenario the symptoms are not immediately apparent because the discs aren't warped. However there's sufficient "wobble" on the bearing to cause excessive heat build up on the new disc to lead to premature warping which then becomes apparent??
I am always alerted when MERCEDES replace/ upgrade certain components during a models lifetime- This may simply be down to supply issues or---an unacceptible premature failure rate of said component!
the failure history points towards a problem which is not being adequately addressed by simply replacing discs. the next obvious port of call- if the car is under warranty -- is to replace the front wheel bearings to eliminate them as a possible cause -as I said it may not possible to test bearing runout under load in real world conditions in the garage.
 
If it was a faulty / damaged / worn cassette then surely a brand new set of discs would causing the vibration from the start , not just after 1500 miles ?

Normally the warping of (decent) discs is due to excessive heat and to damage a set of discs in just 1500m there must have been some obvious signs of this , either through the car dragging one of its wheels or "that" smell of metal overheating.

Looks like your spanner guy is clueless and I would be looking for someone new to work on your car.

Are you being charged for the discs and garage time ?

Are the pads worn evenly ?

K
Hi, there is no sign of overheating discs, just axial run out on both of them almost identical. The official Cyprus Dealership charged me the first time and when it happened again they credited my account with the amount paid. Now they are saying they will not cover the expenses again as the factory doesn’t allow them to cover the parts under goodwill. The factory suggests to try new discs with new hydro mounts / bushes (those for the 4matic model). There is no guarantee that this solution will work but anyway the factory won’t cover any future replacements
I am quite sure now, that the authorized MB dealership in he UK knew about the various serious pre existing issues with the vehicle, at the time at which the vehicle was sold and for unknown reasons these issues were concealed and overlooked and the vehicle was sold to me as an Approved Used!
What are my options now?
 
OK a little further digging brought up the subject of hybrid disc rotors where the centre section is pressed steel or aluminium and the frictional surface disc is cast iron. These are to be found on the latest W205 and w213 models. These are evidently very easy distorted by rough handling in transit/storage when new or in use- the use of compressed air guns on wheel bolts is highly discouraged for example
some links
warped brake rotor? 2 times since Aug 2015! - MBWorld.org Forums
OneDrive
This is another possible problem?
 

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