BBC1 - Cars, Cops and Criminals

[robert.saunders]

On now - organised car crime

 

[glojo]

On now - organised car crime

Well spotted

 

[Geezer]

Don't buy a car in Cyprus!!

 

[robert.saunders]

SLR................

 

[gina2201]

Tis very good....I wondered why I saw so many expensive cars (99% Mercs) in Cyprus....

 

[MBManInKen]

Just finished watching it. I wish one of these guys would be on the case of Jay's fraudulently taken s-class .

The biggest surprise was the story about thieves getting duplicate keys abroad with false documents, then using those to just get into your car and drive it away. No need to break the DAS3 system .

Oh, and the story of that women who got car-jacked at gun point a few minutes away from here in South Kensington was also rather shocking ...

 

[Gucci]

They said the dealers need to do more checks.....mmmm.....not while their commission is waived under their nose

 

[robert.saunders]

Huge, huge business - you gotta wonder where Jay's case fits into such things, is his crime dare I say it "big enough"

 

[glojo]

Hi Robert,
Thank you very much for pointing out that very interesting program but what really annoyed me was the so called punishments awarded to the criminals.

What deterrent is there for criminals??? We have someone that actually films themselves driving the stolen SLR, he never gave a hoot for the law or what he was doing; he was sentenced to two years!! That means any time served on remand will be deducted from the sentence and my guess is that he will be unlucky to serve anything more than 8 months!! The master criminal behind the biggest operation got six years, so he will probably serve about two and come out a very rich man. All the others were a joke 12 month suspended, charges dropped, etc etc. How many man hours would there have been involved in these complex investigations?

Soft on crime, soft on the causes of crime.

What a great advert for wannabee thieves

Regards
John

 

[Dieselman]

Huge, huge business - you gotta wonder where Jay's case fits into such things, is his crime dare I say it "big enough"

I'd have thought it fitted well as it's finance fraud and deception and appears organised.

 

[robert.saunders]

I'd have thought it fitted well as it's finance fraud and deception and appears organised.

Agree; I'm just saddened that little feedback is given to Jay, even bad news is something, rather than hearing nothing at all

 

[Gucci]

It's all relative I guess, same as with any crime. TV shows the top scale (makes for good TV) - some of those gangs exist, but many more operate on a smaller scale.

Plenty of scum roam the earth sadly

 

[Dieselman]

What deterrent is there for criminals??? We have someone that actually films themselves driving the stolen SLR, he never gave a hoot for the law or what he was doing; he was sentenced to two years!! That means any time served on remand will be deducted from the sentence and my guess is that he will be unlucky to serve anything more than 8 months!!

It's about what I'd expect from the judicial system. I've seen someone go down for the same period for nearly killing someone with an iron bar, in a deliberate premeditated attack.

This isn't to rant on about it, just it appears to be the case.

 

[Carrotchomper]

months!! The master criminal behind the biggest operation got six years, so he will probably serve about two and come out a very rich man.
Regards
John

The sentence is ****e, but these days it is unlikely he will come out a rich man.... I can only speak for my force but the asset recovery department is active, effective and does work.

It's like a lifetime debt, essentially, and the powers of seizure are huge.

The Proceeds of Crime Act is an under-reported but magnificent piece of legislation. In the case of cash seizures from criminals it actively REVERSES the burden of proof onto them, to state how they came by the proceeds. Nice. And it really, really gets up their noses.

 

[Dieselman]

It's like a lifetime debt, essentially, and the powers of seizure are huge.

What do you mean by that, CC.? Does the liability remain once they are out of prison or is it just to recover the proceeds of crime from before their time.?

It's true that one satisfaction is that the miscreants often lose everything when they go inside, incuding houses.

 

[glojo]

The sentence is ****e, but these days it is unlikely he will come out a rich man.... I can only speak for my force but the asset recovery department is active, effective and does work.

It's like a lifetime debt, essentially, and the powers of seizure are huge.

The Proceeds of Crime Act is an under-reported but magnificent piece of legislation. In the case of cash seizures from criminals it actively REVERSES the burden of proof onto them, to state how they came by the proceeds. Nice. And it really, really gets up their noses.

I wish I had the same faith. Only a few months ago I can recall a case where this organisation had to give back millions to someone that was allegedly on benefits??

I would like to think that any monies that was obtained through crime would have been disclosed? This program was a historical record of criminal acts. Right at the end we were told of the sentences handed out; to me that would have been the time to inform us of any seizures??

We all accept there are only so many places that Tracker type devices can be concealed but I wonder if they even thought about taking a receiver out to Cyprus??

I once watched a documentary where a journalist over flew the capital of Nigeria in a helicopter fitted with a tracker receiver. They had to switch the thing off because of all the incoming signals!

Regards
John

 

[Carrotchomper]

What do you mean by that, CC.? Does the liability remain once they are out of prison or is it just to recover the proceeds of crime from before their time.?

It's true that one satisfaction is that the miscreants often lose everything when they go inside, incuding houses.

In principle, when the case goes to court, the Financial Investigation Unit carry out an assessment of three things-

1) Their cash assets and realisable goods, such as cars. Much as a baliff would.

2) Their financial assets. A lot of digging goes in here, and it's often the proverbial "Swiss bank account" which is where the loot ends up. Provided this is a UK bank, the asset is instantly frozen.

3) Proceeds of crime. This is brilliant, essentially a guesstimate of how much they have profited from crime over a wide period of time. Judges do tend to accept high estimates- Basically a "Snapshot" of offending can be extrapolated long term to provide the figure.

The procedure for asset seizure is essentially a civil process, meaning the level of proof is somewhat lower than the criminal case. Once this is established, and on conviction, the judge reaches a figure, which is then registered as a debt against them.

It's not like the nonsense "Pay a fiver a week" fines. No. The judge specifies a period of 1 year or so, by the end of which time the debt must be paid. This allows time for them to liquidate assets such as property.

If the debt is not paid by that specified time, then they are brought back into Crown Court. The judge has the power to impose a long period of imprisonment for failure to comply with the court order. And they have done in the past, genuinely.

The best part is that the debt does not disappear until it is paid. The FIU continues to monitor them, and if any realisable assets are found then they can be seized.

It's good legislation, and put into practice well, although the FIU is constantly understaffed. They pay for themselves 100 fold though.

 

[Dieselman]

Judges do tend to accept high estimates- Basically a "Snapshot" of offending can be extrapolated long term to provide the figure.

Now this bit I like...Just like the HMRC I assume they go for a good trading period...

 

[Carrotchomper]

Now this bit I like...Just like the HMRC I assume they go for a good trading period...

Boo-yeah!

I know the example I was looking for. Recent seizure of £500k+ from fraudulent activities originating on a Traveller's site...

 

[Dieselman]

I know the example I was looking for. Recent seizure of £500k+ from fraudulent activities originating on a Traveller's site...

Do you reckon they'd have any spare Pajero's knocking about..