BBC2 - 9PM: Das Auto: The Germans, Their Cars and US

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Interesting program but whoever did the scheduling needs shooting after the brilliant end to top gear.
 
Interesting program but whoever did the scheduling needs shooting after the brilliant end to top gear.

That was the whole point. In Britain we make lots of cars, mainly for export...but then the profits are also for export.
 
The Germans also make a lot of cars.......80% are for export too, just so happens they have lots of offshore manufacturing facilities to further add to their profits and ease penetration to those markets.

Lots of home truths, but then again nothing really that we didn't know.
 
Management and the workforce, combining and working in harmony for the good of the company?

It'll never catch on...

The one big irony is that the Germans would never make a programme like that but the other way round; the quintessential British psyche (right across the classes) is to be a plucky loser, "Look at him, too big for his boots" & "Who do they think they are, showing off their new car" etc etc.

The facts are that a lot of people in this country have a real and genuine dislike for other people being successful or doing something worthwhile, if you earn a few quid and are from a poor background and buy a nice car/house etc you're classed as a 'chav' or some other derogatory name by those who'd rather sit on the fence sniping away, you're very rarely encouraged to do even better.
 
Mercedes probably got about 3 minutes mention in a hour long program. :( Focussed mainly on the VW Golf. :confused: Covered all the bases ---- unions, investment management, branding etc but I found it superficial journalism, badly presented by some talking heads with a charisma bypass which told us nothing new. Far to much boring stock footage of cars driving along roads/autobahns A programme about the German car industry for people not interested in cars. :doh: Nothing about the recent titanic power struggle between VW and Porsche for example. That ownership profile of BMW and its brief relationship with BL. The recent spread of VAG and others into manufacturing in the former communist block. The huge post war investment of Nato countries into Germany to stem a European communist take over post war. The fact Germany was not allow to rearm and spend money on their armed forces. The role of Gastarbeiter in the German economic miracle. Germany's post war investment regulation. The list goes on and on------- as I write this I am beginning to realise how poor it was and how much was missed out. Humdrum and Disappointing. :fail
 
I suspect it wasn't supposed to be a political/historical diatribe, more along the usual semi-sensational, annoying "My big fat gypsy wedding" lines.

Just what gets watched on UK TV.
 
At one time Britain used to be the best at manufacturing high quality goods, Rolls Royce etc. That was until the respective Government's privatised and sold everything off, starting with Thatcher.

Now we are stuffed!
 
At one time Britain used to be the best at manufacturing high quality goods, Rolls Royce etc. That was until the respective Government's privatised and sold everything off, starting with Thatcher.

Now we are stuffed!

To be fair, BL was stuffed before she even came to power. It mentioned that even she didn't back down on giving another subsidy, even though everyone told her it was dead long before.

Top Gear before did a rather nice piece at the end showing that the skills are still there- just not the complete mass produced car. Britain, however, is the place that the big companies still come to for the finest craftsmanship (wood and leather work), and mechanicals (the gearbox for the veyron) etc...
 
At one time Britain used to be the best at manufacturing high quality goods, Rolls Royce etc. That was until the respective Government's privatised and sold everything off, starting with Thatcher.

Now we are stuffed!

Not the Thatcher debate again..... :D
 
As pointed out, pride is one thing and economics is another.

If foreign investors offered to build factories and provide employment to workers in the UK, making goods that will be exported abroad, they would have been applauded in most countries around the world.

So why do we get so upset when it comes to traditional British brands? Pride? Possibly, but the economics behind the model are sound and make sense for the British people.
 
As far as 'profits going abroad'...

The workers get paid, and HMRC get thier cut in PAYE taxes.

The company then makes profit and pays HMRC Corporation Tax.

Why are people so obsessed with what happens to the remainder - does it really matter if it goes to enrich the personal estates of Captains of Industry in this country or in another? Must it all go to Sir this and this rather to Herr das und das?

As far as I am concerned he factory has served its purpose, provided employment to workers and tax revenue to the government, and at this point I don't really care what nationality are the people who benefit from the rest.

Would a British industrialist have given it all to the people of this country while the German one builds mansions for himself...?
 
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What was only touched on was the irony that the countries comprising that evil axis of power Japan and Germany -- despite their defeat by Britain, USA and France had vast resources poured into them post war to stem what was seen as the creeping menace of communism. At the same time--- as the "defeated parties" they were not permitted to re-arm and had only nominal defence forces. This meant their defence was mainly provided, at not inconsiderable cost, by the armed forces of Britain and the USA . Remember the British Army of the Rhine for years defending West Germany against the ravening hordes of "commies" just across the border in East Germany? The close proximity of a communist block East Germany may have also played a more subtle role in the thinking of the trade unions in West Germany post war. Nothing like some of your relatives in East Germany writing and hinting how **** it was living in a Communist state to colour your view on the " workers struggle"?:dk: Meanwhile back in Britain perhaps buoyed up by victory :eek: we were busy pouring millions into developing weaponry which didn't work:doh: and defending Germany and Japan while they developed their manufacturing industries which were later to shaft us. :wallbash: That's not to decry the effort both the German's and Japanese put in post war to recover their devastated economies--- they did it of their own bat :thumb:---but we afforded them the resources to do it and spent billions defending them while they did! While there are sensitivities associated with the past there is scant acknowledgement of these economic realities from Germany or Japan today. When will we see a VAG advert like Das beste oder der nichts which says " British Army officer Major Ivan Hirst REME at your service. Let's get this sorry show on the road what!" Don't hold your breath! :rolleyes:
 
What was only touched on was the irony that the countries comprising that evil axis of power Japan and Germany -- despite their defeat by Britain, USA and France had vast resources poured into them post war to stem what was seen as the creeping menace of communism. At the same time--- as the "defeated parties" they were not permitted to re-arm and had only nominal defence forces. This meant their defence was mainly provided, at not inconsiderable cost, by the armed forces of Britain and the USA . Remember the British Army of the Rhine for years defending West Germany against the ravening hordes of "commies" just across the border in East Germany? The close proximity of a communist block East Germany may have also played a more subtle role in the thinking of the trade unions in West Germany post war. Nothing like some of your relatives in East Germany writing and hinting how **** it was living in a Communist state to colour your view on the " workers struggle"?:dk: Meanwhile back in Britain perhaps buoyed up by victory :eek: we were busy pouring millions into developing weaponry which didn't work:doh: and defending Germany and Japan while they developed their manufacturing industries which were later to shaft us. :wallbash: That's not to decry the effort both the German's and Japanese put in post war to recover their devastated economies--- they did it of their own bat :thumb:---but we afforded them the resources to do it and spent billions defending them while they did! While there are sensitivities associated with the past there is scant acknowledgement of these economic realities from Germany or Japan today. When will we see a VAG advert like Das beste oder der nichts which says " British Army officer Major Ivan Hirst REME at your service. Let's get this sorry show on the road what!" Don't hold your breath! :rolleyes:

In reality we also poured vast sums into our industries too, but made some fundamental errors - not adopting new managers and management practice, thinking that we could rely on empire as a market, not investing in R&D - and keep making them.

Key, as someone else said, is how "engineering" is viewed in this country. The government proudly crows about 450,000 apprentices, but have a look at the website to see how bad the money is and how many are "real" apprenticeships (and not apprentice estate agents, care workers and receptionists). We don't invest in young people, and that includes industry as well as government.

If you talk to leaders in the German industry (as I have done) they openly acknowledge the helping hand they got in the 40's and 50's. However they also acknowledge the importance of a manufacturing backbone to an economy that is focused on export growth and is not afraid to re-invest in R&D and skills development.

It was a very light-weight programme - it couldn't be anything else as a one-off - but offered some interesting views. However, perhaps we should also think about this - I know 5 or 6 lads who have spent 3 years looking for engineering and automotive apprenticeships here in the SE with nothing happening. My lad, who is bright and enthusiastic, has finished his NVQ3 and yet there is still nothing out there. I hate to think what he's spent on postage and mileage... OK, perhaps people aren't spending the money on their cars at the moment, but the industry is facing a cliff of it's own making when the supply of skilled and experienced technicians runs out.
 

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