BHS heading for administration as rescue deal fails

[Lennox]

It is but when were you last in one!!? Totally lost track of the industry. Ive become a LIDL fan and I've even started using M&S more and more. And not just food.

 

[markjay]

As an anecdote... a lady by the name of Lin Macmillan was interviewed on Sky News today. She is (or rather, was) a BHS employee. When asked what she thought about Philip Green's proposal to make a voluntary contribution into the employees' pension fund in return for the probe into the case being dropped, she replied "It sounds to me like he is offering a bride, but we'll have to see how much money he is willing to give". Well I know what she meant to say, but I couldn't help seeing the funny side.

 

[219]

The two points I made were:

(a) We need to have a public discussion regarding the standards required in order to obtain and more importantly to maintain Knighthood. Taking pot shots on ad-hoc basis at individuals when they are involved in scandal or otherwise get into the public eye for all the wrong reasons is not the best way forward.


(b) Bestowing a Knighthood on wealthy businessmen and industrialist will always pose an issue - I would argue that you can't go from rags to riches through observing the highest moral standards at all times - it is just not possible to become extremely wealthy while maintaining the ethics of a Buddhist Monk.

On the same note, Sir Tom Farmer who received his Knighthood for his Charitable work, made his fortune by selling Kwik-Fit to Ford for £1bn in 1999. We could very well bring Kwik-Fit's business practices during his time at the helm under scrutiny... he did not make his fortune by being charitable to his customers. Nothing wrong with the chap - hats off for his business success as well for his charitable donations - but once we stipulate that we expect those Knighted to adhere to the highest moral standards, as opposed to just behaving as businessmen do, we are coining a new oxymoron.

Historically , Knights never were saints ; they were warriors who rode around on horseback with big swords or lances and dealt summarily with anyone who opposed them or their sovereign .

Modern day knights who do battle with fountain pens are hardly any different .

 

[219]

It is but when were you last in one!!? Totally lost track of the industry. Ive become a LIDL fan and I've even started using M&S more and more. And not just food.

SWMBO was in the Glasgow St Enoch one the other day ( she was in the shopping centre for something else and looked in as she passed ) . She said it looked very sad , with hardly any stock left .

My own thoughts are that it had the image of an older persons' shop with little to attract new customers ? I'm not so far off retirement age myself but wouldn't have thought of shopping there ; more somewhere my granny might have gone .

Sad that it has gone , and in particular I feel for the staff , but it ought to have rebranded and modernised years ago .

 

[Red C220]

As an anecdote... a lady by the name of Lin Macmillan was interviewed on Sky News today. She is (or rather, was) a BHS employee. When asked what she thought about Philip Green's proposal to make a voluntary contribution into the employees' pension fund in return for the probe into the case being dropped, she replied "It sounds to me like he is offering a bride, but we'll have to see how much money he is willing to give". Well I know what she meant to say, but I couldn't help seeing the funny side.

I wonder if Sir Philip has been in touch with Bernie Ecclestone's German lawyers?

 

[Deleted member 6183]

They had a reasonable lighting section.

 

[Druk]

They had a reasonable lighting section.

They did! But then, to access the Edinburgh store you had to pay for parking @ £5 an hour, walk a mile along Princes St only to find that you could have bought much the same thing from B&Q or PAGAZZI in any out of town mall. Philip Green notwithstanding any big anonymous store like Woolies or BHS are on a hiding to nothing nowadays.

 

[markjay]

As an anecdote... a lady by the name of Lin Macmillan was interviewed on Sky News today. She is (or rather, was) a BHS employee. When asked what she thought about Philip Green's proposal to make a voluntary contribution into the employees' pension fund in return for the probe into the case being dropped, she replied "It sounds to me like he is offering a bride, but we'll have to see how much money he is willing to give". Well I know what she meant to say, but I couldn't help seeing the funny side.

'bribe' !!!!

 

[Wheelsnuts]

They did! But then, to access the Edinburgh store you had to pay for parking @ £5 an hour, walk a mile along Princes St only to find that you could have bought much the same thing from B&Q or PAGAZZI in any out of town mall. Philip Green notwithstanding any big anonymous store like Woolies or BHS are on a hiding to nothing nowadays.

Sad but true. There is no level playing field on which high street stores can compete against out of town shops. In spite of successive governments going on about saving the High Street they have all failed to address the fundamental issue of parking: free at out of town centres but costing an arm and a leg in city centres.
BHS had a foot in both camps. They had lost their way in the modern retail environment but I suspect their town centre stores contributed more to their downfall.

 

[grober]

The commercial success of BHS and other high street stores in the age of the internet is surely a red herring in relation to the case in hand. The issue is the asset stripping of the employees pension fund while funding a luxury lifestyle to the detriment of long serving BHS staff who had paid pension contributions over the years in good faith.

BHS collapse: what happens to the retailer's pension fund?

 

[Deleted member 6183]

They did! But then, to access the Edinburgh store you had to pay for parking @ £5 an hour, walk a mile along Princes St only to find that you could have bought much the same thing from B&Q or PAGAZZI in any out of town mall. Philip Green notwithstanding any big anonymous store like Woolies or BHS are on a hiding to nothing nowadays.

It's all Wayfair and Achica now.

 

[markjay]

The commercial success of BHS and other high street stores in the age of the internet is surely a red herring in relation to the case in hand. The issue is the asset stripping of the employees pension fund while funding a luxury lifestyle to the detriment of long serving BHS staff who had paid pension contributions over the years in good faith.

BHS collapse: what happens to the retailer's pension fund?

You mean the issue is 'Capitalism'....?

I never met Philip Green in person (though I did see him in public) and judging from how he comes across on TV I probably wouldn't want him as a dinner guest either.

But I am surprised at the hate campaign against him which singles him out for no obvious reason. Most people in his position are sadly the same.

Some of my clients are very wealthy individuals and no different to Sir Phillip I am afraid.... but this is how the system works.

And before you say yes but BHS went bust with loss of 22,000 jobs.... didn't BMW pull out of Rover? And anyone mentioned Tata? The reality is that money talks. And does any one remember what Richard Gere did for a living in Pretty Woman? He was an asset stripper (that saw the error of his ways aftet meeting Julia Roberts...).

As for Sir Phillip's knighthood.... the simple answer is don't give honours to wealthy businessmen, there isn't a single one amongst them that is likely to be Canonised after their death.

 

[John Jones Jr]

But I am surprised at the hate campaign against him which singles him out for no obvious reason. Most people in his position are sadly the same.

Really...

 

[markjay]

Really...

Well I shouldn't be surprised really because it was well orchestrated by the tabloids who never miss an opportunity to 'mobilise the troops' if it can increase their circulation. And to be honest his case wasn't helped by him behaving like an arrogant bar steward. But the point is that the issue isn't Philip Green! Or BMW, or Tata.... we have a system in place where shrewd people can get very rich very quickly using perfectly legal but morally questionable means. The argument in favour might be that it's the lesser of two evils (Capitalism vs Communism), etc etc, but singling-out one individual and calling for him to be tarred and feathered is either ignorant or disingenuous.

 

[grober]

I never met Philip Green in person (though I did see him in public) and judging from how he comes across on TV I probably wouldn't want him as a dinner guest either.
But I am surprised at the hate campaign against him which singles him out for no obvious reason. Most people in his position are sadly the same.
Some of my clients are very wealthy individuals and no different to Sir Phillip I am afraid.... but this is how the system works.
As for Sir Phillip's knighthood.... the simple answer is don't give honours to wealthy businessmen, there isn't a single one amongst them that is likely to be Canonised after their death.

And its always difficult to argue against a nihilist viewpoint which is why people often revert to them in discussions such as this . ;

Full Definition
a : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless
b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths

 

[markjay]

And its always difficult to argue against a nihilist viewpoint which is why people often revert to them in discussions such as this . ;

Full Definition
a : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless
b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths

I don't see this in my posts...

My point all along was and still is that Philip Green did what many - if not most - wealthy businessmen do. From living in tax haven, through running a luxurious lifestyle and a string of off-shore holding companies and Trusts, and up to asset stripping when they can. Why single him out? The tabloids keep coming-up with various punitive measures for a man they admit is not suspected of having committed any criminal offence. And politicians look to appease the mob by taking populist measures and joining the 'hang him' choir. And I am the only one who thinks this is wrong? This may be a good time to review how we deal with Capitalism and more importantly who we give honours to. As for Philip Green? If it was down to me, I would tone down the current lynching atmosphere and let a parliamentary committee look into the fall of BHS and into Philip Green's affairs in general, then bring criminal charges where they are due. Or is this too rational?

 

[John Jones Jr]

Well I shouldn't be surprised really because it was well orchestrated by the tabloids who never miss an opportunity to 'mobilise the troops' if it can increase their circulation.

Ha, ha. The press have nothing got to do with BHS or the 22,000 who's pension is fooked! Blaming the press in this case is just ridiculous. Actually, I'd be happy to see the press hound greedy Green for the rest of his days.

 

[Dryce]

I
My point all along was and still is that Philip Green did what many - if not most - wealthy businessmen do. From living in tax haven, through running a luxurious lifestyle and a string of off-shore holding companies and Trusts, and up to asset stripping when they can.

Not so many reengineer businesses to extract wealth quite so dramatically and then rengineer it again to leave a massive bill to the taxpayer on this scale.

When BHS was sold there was a huge amount of disquiet. It was obvuious to see what was coming.

Don't taint all people in business. Maybe most of the wealthy business people you know are like that.

I've encountered some dodgy people across the spectrum over the years. My feeling though is that they are a minority and that the remainder are a mixture of the remarkable and the lucky (right place, right attitude, right time).

 

[markjay]

...Don't taint all people in business. Maybe most of the wealthy business people you know are like that....

Not all people in business. The very wealthy ones, yes - once you are in the 300ft yacht and private jet category, it is very unlikely that you have obtained your wealth by adhering to all government guidelines. Nothing illegal, just quite a few things that you or me wouldn't do. This is my experience anyway.

 

[markjay]

...and how come we face another pensions debacle? Have no lessons been learnt from the Maxwell affair? Philip Green did nothing illegal and yet the pensions cupboard is bare - how is this even possible? Is no one accountable? That the employees' only hope to get their pensions at this stage is if Philip Green agrees to make a voluntary contribution beggars belief. How are their pensions not protected? And no one has committed any offence yet their pensions money is gone?