Only problem with that definition is that there are so many members of the public , who feel that they are competent and careful , perhaps members of an organisation named after one of the pedals i a car , and who drive everywhere at circa 40 mph . When one of us comes up behind them , and overtakes safely at NSL , they would hold their hands up in horror , flash their lights , sound their horns and shout 'dangerous driver' . Of course , when these same people come to the next village , some will carry on through at 40 mph , oblivious to the 30 limit and why it is there ...
Biker Pulls Wheely Overtaking Me
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Only problem with that definition is that there are so many members of the public , who feel that they are competent and careful , perhaps members of an organisation named after one of the pedals i a car , and who drive everywhere at circa 40 mph . When one of us comes up behind them , and overtakes safely at NSL , they would hold their hands up in horror , flash their lights , sound their horns and shout 'dangerous driver' . Of course , when these same people come to the next village , some will carry on through at 40 mph , oblivious to the 30 limit and why it is there ...
milleplod
Active Member
Exactly why folk need to be careful where and when they choose to play! One has to think it's why the legislation was drafted that way - the old offence of 'reckless driving' (replaced by 'dangerous') was very, very difficult to prove because it had to be shown that a driver knew his/her driving could lead to something nasty.
Interestingly, the skill of a driver is an irrelevant circumstance when considering whether the driving is dangerous, courtesy of R v Bannister at the Appeal Court back in '09. Many a wheelying biker has claimed that 'skill' meant that he (it was always a 'he'!) was never a danger to other road users. It matters not a jot if a rider can pull a mile-long wheelie and weave through traffic with his eyes shut while doing it - 'skill' isn't a defence.
Pete
Yugguy
MB Enthusiast
A lot of comments show the self-centeredness of people in general. "I should be able to pull wheelies and do 100mph because I have the skill."
Now this may well be true, you may be the bastard love child of Ayrton Senna and Guy Martin.
However your fellow road users are not and I'll happily class myself with them.
When I look to overtake and there is a corner far enough away that a car coming round it not at speed makes it safe for me I should be able to assume that someone won't come round it at twice the limit. I shouldn't have to brake because a biker thinks it's his god-given right to shoot right into the gap between me and the car in front as we slow to a queue.
This anticipation should be across all driving. That driving isn't just you, that you need to be aware of what others will experience and expect.
For instance - it is unusual to go all the way around a roundabout, so if you have to, expect that it will surprise other drivers and be ready for them not to have anticipated it.
Now this may well be true, you may be the bastard love child of Ayrton Senna and Guy Martin.
However your fellow road users are not and I'll happily class myself with them.
When I look to overtake and there is a corner far enough away that a car coming round it not at speed makes it safe for me I should be able to assume that someone won't come round it at twice the limit. I shouldn't have to brake because a biker thinks it's his god-given right to shoot right into the gap between me and the car in front as we slow to a queue.
This anticipation should be across all driving. That driving isn't just you, that you need to be aware of what others will experience and expect.
For instance - it is unusual to go all the way around a roundabout, so if you have to, expect that it will surprise other drivers and be ready for them not to have anticipated it.
Indeed , but the skill of the person sitting in judgement ought to be a prerequisite before they can sit over motoring cases : I would feel hard done by if a lay magistrate or JP , sitting over a case such as I described above , turned out to be one of those '40 mph brigade' who thought all overtaking was 'dangerous' . I know there are court officials who advise them on points of law , but I know one such person who fits in days sitting as a JP , between days at the golf club and the rotary club etc , and has no particular training or knowledge re motoring law , yet can , on a whim , award fines or points , which might amount to someone losing their licence .
milleplod
Active Member
That's ever the case when offering yourself up to a bench of magistrates, as opposed to standing before the professional judiciary - yet another incentive to desist, I've often thought! It does explain the sheer lack of consistency to be found in the lower courts - most of my appearances in court were to give evidence in magistrates', and the variable sentencing for very similar offences never ceased to amaze me at times. It may have changed these days - I know with a couple of JPs, younger ones, but we seldom talk shop....I'll have to ask them.
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It has changed and there are strict guidelines that must be followed. For speeding and drink drive offences there are bands which the offence falls into and these then reflect the fine and points/disqualification for the severity of that particular incident. For dangerous/careless driving there are guidelines to assess culpability and harm. These then determine the seriousness of the offence and that is considered by either three magistrates or a single DJ (District Judge). A DJ is a lawyer of many years experience. A single magistrate cannot on a whim impose a disproportionate punishment for an offence. The exception to the bench of three or DJ is the Single Justice Procedure (SJP). This is where a single magistrate sits with a legal advisor (trained lawyer for the Crown), and goes through a number of cases where the accused has responded online or by post and elected either a guilty plea in absence or a not guilty plea. A guilty plea in absence will be dealt with within the guidelines and if the perpetrator is likely to be a 'totter' or the offence is more serious they are summonsed to appear at a later date in front of a DJ or a bench of three magistrates.
There will be disparity between how offences are dealt with on occasion. For instance a driver who is on his own in the car speeding past a school at 15:00 hrs doing 20MPH over the limit is unlikely to be dealt with as leniently as another driver doing the same speed past the same school at 3AM rushing to a hospital with a very sick child in the car.
It’s a wee bit different here ( although guidelines still apply ) where you can be up before a JP , with his advisor , a full time Sheriff for more serious offences ( but still summary trial ) , or the High Court with one or more High Court Judges for very serious matters in a solemn trial with jury .
