Biodiesel

[Satch]

Whatever route you go, be aware that oils vary and using only veggie oil in an unmodified car can be a disaster in cold weather. Rapeseed oil is pretty much slushy wax bordering on solid at at -10c, Sunflower Oil -17c and most oils start to cloud and wax way before that, plugging filters.

As far as I could determine, for those cars which are suitable (and not all are) 50:50 veggie oil/diesel is generally held to work OK year round in the UK (other than by makers of oil heating systems!) with 80:20 being suitable for summer use.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

Whatever route you go, be aware that oils vary and using only veggie oil in an unmodified car can be a disaster in cold weather. Rapeseed oil is pretty much slushy wax bordering on solid at at -10c, Sunflower Oil -17c and most oils start to cloud and wax way before that, plugging filters.

As far as I could determine, for those cars which are suitable (and not all are) 50:50 veggie oil/diesel is generally held to work OK year round in the UK (other than by makers of oil heating systems!) with 80:20 being suitable for summer use.

Forgive me for my cynicism, Satch, but with respect, what makes you an expert on the subject? It would really help if people offering advice on here made their qualifications known.

Otherwise, I am left to choose between a number of conflicting unqualified opinions, with that number having just increased by one. And I bet there will be yet another one or two along soon.

 

[Satch]

Forgive me for my cynicism, Satch, but with respect, what makes you an expert on the subject? It would really help if people offering advice on here made their qualifications known.

Otherwise, I am left to choose between a number of conflicting unqualified opinions, with that number having just increased by one. And I bet there will be yet another one or two along soon.

I could easily be quite rude at this point but your question is a fair one as there is a mass of conflicting information available.

To answer your question a background in Organic Chemistry and then working for the automotive industry (Ford to be precise) for 15 years until I found something better to do. Also researching the subject for my own purposes because at heart I am a mean bugger.

One of my cars has been running on modest SVO/diesel mix (70% diesel 30% of Costco finest) for a while now with no obvious ill effect. Over the summer might step that up a bit but in a modern high pressure common rail diesel not that confident about going to a high SVO%.

The car other I will not run on an SVO mix because it is far from clear that EU4 cars will cope with the ash residues that SVO can produce.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

The main thing you need to look out for is weeps around the fuel pump. Other than that, no more than 10% in the winter, in the summer I've run at 100% with no problems.

It smells nice too

 

[230K]

Hi

I am no expert on this at all but the advice i have is to use what both you and your car are comfortable with. Start with a very low percentage of veg and increase to what you are feel suits your car. This advice is only applicable to in-line bosch pumps on the 601,602,603,604,605 & 606 engines. I know nothing about the rest.

Savings are not huge and putting 1 litre bottles into the tank gets boring it took 15-20 mins the other eveining to put 30 litres in.

3 years ago when i mentioned putting veg oil in a merc i was met with some objection, see thread below. Oh how times have changed.


http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=10516&highlight=vegetable


230K

 

[robert.saunders]

3 years ago when i mentioned putting veg oil in a merc i was met with some objection, see thread below. Oh how times have changed.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=10516&highlight=vegetable

230K

Thanks, that's genuinely interesting

Rob

 

[glojo]

I think the nitty gritty is that pre CDI okay.... Post CDI watch the Top Gear 24 hour endurance race and form your own opinion.

Regards
John

 

[Satch]

I think the nitty gritty is that pre CDI okay.... Post CDI watch the Top Gear 24 hour endurance race and form your own opinion.

Regards
John

John,

for clarity should point out that the TG car was running on Biodiesel knocked up for them by Green Fuels from veg. oil. The company was making a bit of media puff about it beforehand but have been very silent since.....

S.

 

[glojo]

John,

for clarity should point out that the TG car was running on Biodiesel knocked up for them by Green Fuels from veg. oil. The company was making a bit of media puff about it beforehand but have been very silent since.....

S.

Thats a very fair point but the bottom line must be that the additives 'can cause extremely' expensive damage to a common rail fuel system and any owner that ignores the warning in their service booklet does so at their own risk? (question)

Would I ignore the official Mercedes-Benz warning not to do it and then come onto the Internet and ask "Should I do it?"

From everything I hve read, I don't see a problem with this type of fuel when used in older designed engines and having read all the horrific problems on the BMW forums, I wonder how many owners have used bio-diesel and would gthey own up to doing it?

The bottom line is this is all about choice and I must respect the decision of those owners that choose to use bio-diesel with their CDI engines.

Regards
John

 

[Ratz]

I took the plunge yesterday and topped up my (80l)tank with 48 litres of 100% Biodiesel (manufactured to EN14214) from http://www.biofueluk.co.uk/index.html . The man who owns the place (who may not be 100% objective I know) claims to have run his V6 CDI engined Jeep Cherokee for over two years on the stuff without any problems, but he did advise 10% Diesel to mix in the colder weather.
Cost 85p per litre (website is out of date).

So far no problems and running exactly as before albeit without the plume of smoke when I floor it. MPG is the same too so far.

I'll keep you all informed.

 

[Mondorich]

A friend of mine is running his Land Rover Defender 110 Tdi (300 series engine) on biodiesel and is extremely happy so far with nothing but praise for the product. I don't think he had the engine modified prior to switching.

Another friend is about to fit an Elsbett kit to his car so that he can run 100% vegetable oil in it. He will be using waste veg oil, properly filtered and made suitable for use in motors.

As I said earlier in the thread I am using max 10% SVO at the moment and keeping a carefiul eye on the engine before increasing the proportion as the weather warms up (hopefully) before the summer.

I had a fright today ... as I drove out of work, I started to smell a disgusting pong and thought immediately that the fuel system had sprung a leak and that there might be the start of a fire somewhere. After turning the aircon to recirculate and purging my nasal passages of the stink, it went away. I then noticed this old Citroen ZX spewing out blue smoke. It was him all along to my great relief. The smell though wasn't the usual worn engine smell, it had a slight sweetness to it. So, maybe he was running on veg oil as well!

Anyway, back to the experiment...

 

[Dieselman]

It depends who you ask. Based on the definition of "expert" being someone who is prepared to express an opinion, ask ten biodiesel "experts" and you will get ten wildly differing pieces of "advice".

I have a W124 E300 Diesel with the M606 high output non-turbo engine. It is supposedly one of the easiest engines to fuel with biodiesel. But I have been given "advice" varying between "use no more than 5% biodiesel" and "just pour vegetable oil into your tank" including "you must install a dual fuel system with fuel heaters and a supplementary fuel tank that reduces your boot space by a third and costs £1500".

Somewhere in there lies the truth. And some of the rest is pure, clean, low emissions but expensive nonsense.

So what is a boy to do?

I'm going to buy some vegetable oil and fill the tank with it. And that's all.

I wouldn't go for staight veg oil as there is a risk of it failing to atomise when cold, due to the viscosity. This will cause fuel drop-out which can cause oil thickening and carmalising. Keep an eye on the oil level and thickness.

This can happen in any ratio but the hight the greater the risk. However an indirect mercedes engine is the best to use.

 

[robert.saunders]

DM!!

Much love

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

An update: I have been using 25% rapeseed oil and 75% diesel for a week now. The engine starts and runs smoothly. Very smoothly, in fact.

The diesel knock that was audible inside the car has all but disappeared except when cold and when idling (cold or warm). Even then, the knock is much reduced.

I didn't tell my wife the car was running on a different fuel. Honestly, I didn't say a word. When I collected her from the station yesterday, which was her first time in the car with the new fuel mix, she said the car seemed unusually quiet and asked me why. I explained it was running on 25% rapeseed oil from Lidl ...

At Lidl this rapeseed oil costs 78p a litre in 1 litre bottles. There are 15 bottles to a box. At the till you can leave the heavy box in the trolley, take out one bottle and tell the checkout assistant how many bottles, 15 per box. Today I bought another two boxes and will increase the rapeseed percentage to 50% for the next week.

The car is due a service soon and I will have the fuel filters changed and the fuel lines tested. So far I am very happy, and quite surprised and impressed how smoothly the car runs, but I will be looking for a cheaper source of rapeseed oil, as the cost saving is just under 30p per litre, or about 28%. I think I should be able to do a little better than this.

Tony

 

[Dieselman]

I currently get Biodiesel for 79.5p delivered, someone I know is paying 75p.

The engine will run quieter on Bio products due to more complete combustion reducing knock.

 

[230K]

Hi

Glad to hear she is doing well for you, experiment to see what the engine is happy with. You will know when you have too much of a percentage. Sainsbury has veg at 56p/litre. Haven't tried it yet but worth a punt.
I use the Vita D'Or from Lidl and its 69 cents in the Irish Republic approx 50p.

good luck

230k

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

Glad to hear she is doing well for you, experiment to see what the engine is happy with. You will know when you have too much of a percentage. Sainsbury has veg at 56p/litre. Haven't tried it yet but worth a punt.
I use the Vita D'Or from Lidl and its 69 cents in the Irish Republic approx 50p.

Thanks! I wish Lidl UK charged the same prices as Lidl IE.

It sounds like the same oil, Vita D'or. It comes as rapeseed at 78p or Sunflower at 88p.

Where do Lidl get their brand names from? I am quite partial to Palmier pastries, but the Lidl brand name for these is "Snacky Cracky".

No Thanky!

 

[Mondorich]

Sainsbury has veg at 56p/litre. Haven't tried it yet but worth a punt.

It's "Pura" rapeseed oil @ 56p / 1L bottle.

My motor's on 10% veg oil at the moment, all seems OK. With TonyE300D going for 20% I may look to increase it soon.

I have noticed the car is actually starting better than before which seems strange to me given the increased viscosity.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

It's "Pura" rapeseed oil @ 56p / 1L bottle.

My motor's on 10% veg oil at the moment, all seems OK. With TonyE300D going for 20% I may look to increase it soon.

I have noticed the car is actually starting better than before which seems strange to me given the increased viscosity.

I never thought Sainsbury's would be so much cheaper than Lidl!

My intention is to go for 90% rapeseed oil and 10% unleaded petrol in the winter, and change to 100% rapeseed oil around the Ides of March, when there is usually a significant rise in ambient temperatures.

I will keep posting to this thread for anyone who is interested in what happens.

 

[Mondorich]

As Monty Don might possibly say - "Don't get caught out by those late frosts in April and May"

That's what is keeping me cautious for the forseeable future.