Black Boxes Could Be Fitted To All New Vehicles

[ItalianTuneUp]

Who here would like one of these fitted to their new car?

Big brother, or a nice idea?

http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/black-boxes-could-be-fitted-to-all-new-vehicles_64949

 

[renault12ts]

Big brother.

 

[MB8701]

I really really hope this doesn't happen. I would be really really upset.

100% big Brother

Give it 5 more years and those very same black boxes will be used to control the whole car.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

I really really hope this doesn't happen. I would be really really upset.

100% big Brother

Give it 5 more years and those very same black boxes will be used to control the whole car.

Yep, I hope not too...but with Google driverless cars already being trialled, just imagine... "you can't drive the car yourself...for your own safety" !

And I imagine a lot of performance fans here would hate their driving style being tracked and linked to dvla/insurance company databases

Or how about a 'Boston brakes' being applied to your car...oops, remote control change of destination being a possibility...

If this does go ahead, which I imagine it will, there might be some good investment opportunities buying the last of the un-lobotomised cars on the market and selling them to waiting buyers who want their freedom...until they retrofit these boxes.

 

[flango]

erm.... you do realize that a lot of manufacturers already fit black boxes (event data recorders) as standard they just don't tell you. The ones I know off are Jaguar, BMW, Lexus, Land rover, will have to check who else does as well.

We used to analyse them for Insurance companies they come complete with GPS positioning so you can see speed and inertia at any point in the journey and all the cars parameters

Never seen one on an MB though

 

[st13phil]

This has been on the cards ever since the EU launched the Galileo GPS program. Scope creep will ensure that a reason is found for the data logging boxes to "need" a GPS tag. Gotta pay for it somehow

 

[John Jones Jr]

Cameras everywhere and not just on roads either. Now the possibility of black boxes for vehicles. Next step will human black boxes...the basics of which are already there in mobile phones. I'll be dead in forty years, lucky me!

 

[John Jones Jr]

erm.... you do realize that a lot of manufacturers already fit black boxes (event data recorders) as standard they just don't tell you. The ones I know off are Jaguar, BMW, Lexus, Land rover, will have to check who else does as well.

We used to analyse them for Insurance companies they come complete with GPS positioning so you can see speed and inertia at any point in the journey and all the cars parameters

Never seen one on an MB though

Two points, which I presume I'm correct on? First they are not mandatory and two there's nothing illegal about removing them.

 

[ras8963]

Who here would like one of these fitted to their new car?

Big brother, or a nice idea?

Black Boxes Could Be Fitted To All New Vehicles

With navigation aids and mobile phone records they almost exist anyway no? Just in a different guise.....

ATB

 

[flango]

Two points, which I presume I'm correct on? First they are not mandatory and two there's nothing illegal about removing them.

Not mandatory but removing them voids warranty and just like tracker unless you have the locator equipment you will never find them.

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[John Jones Jr]

Not mandatory

It begs the question why manufacturers are fitting them so?

 

[grober]

I imagine the data in these would only be examined in the event of an accident. In certain former Soviet block countries and increasingly here it would appear car owners are voluntarily putting a " spy in the cab" because they want the authorities to know exactly what happened in the event of an accident. If it helps to remove some of the unlicenced uninsured Kamikaze that populate our roads maybe not such a bad thing?

 

[flango]

It begs the question why manufacturers are fitting them so?

I believe it's mainly to do with fraud from a manufacturers point of view as it contains all the cars parameters too. Then the insurance companies cottoned on it could be used for their purposes too

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[markjay]

I don't see an issue with a black box, as long as it is not online, and physical access is required in order to download the data.

And I presume it will be dealt with like any other item of private property - i.e. the police can access it only if they are investigating an alleged offence.

I seem to be in a minority though.

 

[John Jones Jr]

I believe it's mainly to do with fraud from a manufacturers point of view as it contains all the cars parameters too. Then the insurance companies cottoned on it could be used for their purposes too

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It seems to me that the manufacturers have no right to personal information via their black boxes and as for the insurance companies they should not have access to the info either.

One buys a car, to do with as one pleases and one buys insurance in the even of an accident or theft. No one to my knowledge when buying a car is signing up to have a spy in the cab unknowingly . If you are correct it's a disgrace that this covert info is used by the insurance companies.

 

[Giantvanman]

erm.... you do realize that a lot of manufacturers already fit black boxes (event data recorders) as standard they just don't tell you. The ones I know off are Jaguar, BMW, Lexus, Land rover, will have to check who else does as well.

We used to analyse them for Insurance companies they come complete with GPS positioning so you can see speed and inertia at any point in the journey and all the cars parameters

Never seen one on an MB though

They do not make it easy for (and are downright belligerent or deny outright) the police to have access, even following fatal collisions. Private companies (insurance) and money, yes, law and order, no.

 

[markjay]

It seems to me that the manufacturers have no right to personal information via their black boxes and as for the insurance companies they should not have access to the info either.

One buys a car, to do with as one pleases and one buys insurance in the even of an accident or theft. No one to my knowledge when buying a car is signing up to have a spy in the cab unknowingly . If you are correct it's a disgrace that this covert info is used by the insurance companies.

Insurance companies can't force you to hand over the black box following an accident, but they can make it a condition of the policy and say that if you don't like it, insure your car elsewhere.

In which case if you don't hand in the black box following an accident, your policy will be void and you will have no cover (They will still probably pay out any 3rd party damages though).

 

[martyp87]

Hope this never comes out, if it does then it should be exactly as MarkJay described - not online and you would need a reason to download the data if you weren't involved in an accident.

Driverless car wouldn't be that bad though, I'd happily buy a driverless E class so I could have liquid lunches at work!!!!

 

[Giantvanman]

This rears its head now and again. I am not concerned about online/active tracking.

For once, the Human Rights Act could work in the populace's favour in this sense; it could reasonably be argued that any monitoring system that allowed the state to track the movements of its citizens could contravene Article 8:Right to respect for private and family life

1 Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.
2 There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

And I would bet there would be no end of lawyers who would argue just that. It could go something like certainly it would be for public safety but is it reasonable to monitor every car just to catch a relatively small minority? It is therefor not proportional, one of the mainstays for any new law.

 

[flango]

I think it's not classed as personal data it's systems data and hence access to it and the way it can be used is covered by different laws

As in the article all cars have some firm of event recording usually in the srs airbag ECU some manufacturers take it a step further JLR is by far the most comprehensive

I think it only exists in high end cars


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