Blues but no Twos

[wemorgan]

Turning right at a traffic-light controlled crossroads I was then faced with a local 'Panda' Police car coming towards me on my side of the road. The Police car had his lights on but no siren. He was still ~50m from me and travelling slow enough for me to easily move to the side of the road. No panic. No danger. But I was curious as to why he did not have his siren on? Had he been, I like to think I wouldn't have turned right at the crossroads, but just waited for him to pass. I didn't see him in the first place because the line of traffic on my right included high-sided vans blocking my view.

Do local Police cars not have sirens anymore?
If they do are they meant to be used when approaching a junction?

I'm not looking to verbally bash the Police driver, just curious about the sirens.

 

[wxmclk]

If your experience is anything like that of my local plod (North Wales) they appear to make it up as they go along so far as traffic regulations etc are applied. I am forever observing marked police vehicles flouting speed limits (without blue or siren so have to assume not in a 999 situation), exiting roundabouts and the A483 without using indicators, changing lanes on the A483 without indicating etc etc.

I too have no need or "beef" with the police force and have had the benefit of their assistance on a number of occasions over the years. That said the type of things I have seen first hand as described above are not acceptable in my opinion.

 

[scumbag]

a couple of things could have occured.

could be training new plod.

could be that said plod driver has not completed the driving course required to whizz along with both going, but as was required, responding to a request to help somewhere the lights where on but probably not driving at high speed.

could be responding to non emergency, but otherwise urgent requirement, like some scrotes smahing green house windows etc. would not want to tip them off before arrival etc etc.

less probable, urgent call of nature/hot chips burning lap/ shops about to run out of the "next big thing" etc.

 

[JumboBeef]

I am forever observing marked police vehicles flouting speed limits (without blue or siren so have to assume not in a 999 situation)

Sorry, wrong. You do NOT have to use either blues or sirens to claim exemption from speed limits. You can drive on an 999 drive without blues and/or twos.

I do not know if Panda police cars have sirens, but blues and sirens do NOT have to go together (although if you have an accident when claiming exemptions from road traffic laws the very first question you will be asked is did you have your blues/siren on).

could be that said plod driver has not completed the driving course required to whizz along with both going, but as was required, responding to a request to help somewhere the lights where on but probably not driving at high speed.

The use of lights/sirens are individual exemptions and are not dependant on anything else. If the driver was using his/her blue lights, then he/she could have also used the siren (if fitted), exceeded the speed limit, treated a red light as a give way etc etc.

 

[flango]

Spot on post by JB in #4

 

[wemorgan]

The use of lights/sirens are individual exemptions and are not dependant on anything else. If the driver was using his/her blue lights, then he/she could have also used the siren (if fitted), exceeded the speed limit, treated a red light as a give way etc etc.

Thanks for the feedback. I guess the power of hindsight might make that Police driver use the sirens next time? They would have helped her pass through the junction with less interruption I feel.

So are there any guidelines when sirens should/shouldn't be used?

Like not using sirens in residential areas during sleeping hours? Or is that an urban myth?

 

[flango]

Regulation 37 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 restricts the fitting of sirens and other devices to specific emergency vehicles. Regulation 99 allows use of a siren only to indicate to other road users the urgency of the purposes for which a vehicle is being used, or to warn other road users of the presence of the vehicle on the road.

Subject to compliance with construction and use regulations, the use of sirens is according to police discretion. It is for individual chief officers to decide on whether to issue local guidance and on monitoring of adherence to such guidance.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Thanks for the feedback. I guess the power of hindsight might make that Police driver use the sirens next time? They would have helped her pass through the junction with less interruption I feel.

So are there any guidelines when sirens should/shouldn't be used?

Like not using sirens in residential areas during sleeping hours? Or is that an urban myth?

Without knowing the full circumstances, we'll never know.

Not using a siren at a junction sounds like a deliberate decision - most Blue Light drivers would know that it makes the manouvre much easier (& safer) if they use the siren and creep through - but if there is a reason why the siren might hinder them (en route to an offence in progress), the driver makes the judgement.

Not using sirens in residential areas at night is good manners, but I would be surprised if too many places included that in their policies as it really has to be safety above being polite and considerate.
(Use a helicopter to search for a vulnerable (young, elderly etc) missing person at 2am on a frozen night and be sure that you will wake hundreds of people, prompt dozens of letters of complaint - and significantly improve the chances of finding the person alive....)

There is a specific section on the Advanced Driving Course about turning emergency devices off when making progress - eg when a car ahead fails to stop.

 

[JumboBeef]

So are there any guidelines when sirens should/shouldn't be used?

As I posted here, there are a long list of exemptions an emergency driver can claim. The use of the siren is one of them.

When to use it? The short answer is: that is up to the driver. There is no right or wrong answer. You would almost certainly use it on the High Street at 3pm but you would almost certainly not use it on a quiet residential street at 3am.

However, if you had an accident at 3am on that quiet residential street (collision with someone going to/from a night shift maybe), then you will be deemed to be at fault because you didn't use the siren

Police have may reasons not to use a siren. The police car in the first post of this thread may have not used the siren because they were on a silent approach (crime in progress). Maybe, maybe not: there are lots of different reasons.

From an ambulance point of view, I have been on an emergency drive through a major city, in heavy traffic on only blue lights and no sirens. Why? Because the patient in the back was suffering an MI (heart attack) and the sound of the siren can increase stress for that patient, which is to be avoided at all costs. So, an emergency drive, without sirens and with speed, but without harsh cornering or rapid acceleration/deceleration.

Driving on blue lights but without sirens is truely horrible. Other drivers don't know what to do/what you want them to do.

Get it wrong, and you could end up like this guy:

94mph policeman 'killed girl, 16, as he drove without siren' on a call that was false alarm | Mail Online

 

[219]

I would just add to Jumbobeef's post above that not all emergency vehicles have sirens as well as blue lights .

My little Fire Brigade van that I drive for work has a magnetic blue light that I can stick on the roof but no sirens - having said that , I do not normally proceed to incidents under blue lights ( I'm just going to take photographs , so hardly an emergency journey ) : the two main uses for my blue lights are for recognition when arriving at an incident ( during daylight hours I don't usually bother if driving a fully marked up van , but at night when all the cops on the cordon can see is two approaching headlamps , a flash or two of the blue lights lets them know who I am and to open the cordon ) ; the other use is when stopped in the road , usually at an RTC , to protect myself and warn oncoming traffic of an obstruction . There have been a handful of situations where , although not strictly 'proper use' of the blue lights , I have been first on the scene of RTC's , four were occasions where there were crashed vehicles in the right hand lanes of motorways/dual carriageways , and I have stopped behind the crashed vehicles and put up my blue light to both warn approaching traffic and protect those still in/around these vehicles .

There are occasions when I use my own car to go to incidents ( usually just if the van is being serviced or unavailable because someone else is using it ) and I will put the light on the roof , just for recognition .

The only time I have ever proceeded any distance with it flashing was to attend an RTC on a motorway , and I had to travel some distance down the hard shoulder past queing traffic - since I had no siren this was done at a speed of something like 20 mph , always ready for the opportunist who might decide to use the shoulder as a short cut , or who might genuinely need to use it ( overheating whilst in the queue ? ) .

As above , the 'silent approach' is the only scenario I can think of that fits the circumstances described by the OP . I don't know , but I would have thought all Police 'Panda' cars would have had sirens as well as blue lights - perhaps not ?

It is also worth noting that some 'sirens' are little more than a joke , being electronically generated and output through a small horn loudspeaker under the bonnet - most car radios would drown them out !