BMW and Merc to share engines?

[nick mercedes]

BMW make the best engines.

Looks like BMW work with just about anyone...

"Through a joint venture formed in 1997, Chrysler and Rover (owned for a time by BMW) designed a new family of 1.4-and 1.6-litre powerplants, built in Brazil"

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/rover.html

"BMW Group and PSA Peugeot Citroën announced their partnership in Munich in December 2004. The joint development of the engines took place in the BMW Group R&D Centre in Munich with teams of engineers of both groups. R&D costs are shared by both partners."

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/01/bmw_and_psa_peu.html

"BMW will drop Toyota-made diesel engines (currently in the MINI ONE D) from the next-generation Mini due in 2008, company sources say. The German luxury automaker will instead buy a diesel engine jointly developed by PSA/Peugeot-Citroen and Ford.”"

http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/05/17/mini_to_drop_toyota_diesel_in_2008/

 

[gary350]

"BMW will drop Toyota-made diesel engines (currently in the MINI ONE D) from the next-generation Mini due in 2008, company sources say. The German luxury automaker will instead buy a diesel engine jointly developed by PSA/Peugeot-Citroen and Ford.”"

http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/05/17/mini_to_drop_toyota_diesel_in_2008/

Looks like they will be fitting the new Jaguar diesel engine then, that will be a geat mini

gary

 

[wemorgan]

Are you sure it's the 2.0 diesel rather than the 1.6?

 

[gIzzE]

Now i'm not generalising here, but wasn't the e46 M3 a very troublesome engine.

No, virtually bullet proof, loads of people have done 150k miles on them now, and some of the tuners have done 200k on highly tuned ones.

There was a concern that some part may not have been up to spec and BMW did a recall for some of the very first 2001 cars.

Generally BMW engines are as reliable as any one else's, you hear a lot about the diesel turbos, but then the 3 series is the best selling mid sized saloon sold so you are going to hear about problems.

But then if the turbo goes on a 530d it is £800 to replace, what if the radiator goes on the E320cdi?? That can be a £10k bill. Now not sure how common this is but it would put many off.

I think you have to ignore the rumours about reliability, you would never buy anything.
My father in law has a garage and he sees more VAG diesels than anything else, he reckons by the time they are 7 years old they are a money pit.


I make a conscious effort to not look at forums for faults when looking for a car, you would never buy anything!!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I think the move to NA for the 6.2 AMG motor was probably driven by the desire to increase sales volumes. BMW have generally led the pack, with AMG and Audi more niche offerings.

The motoring press have a significant influence over buyer perceptions in this market, and journos tend to favour higher revving NA motors, rather than torquier lower revving FI motors.

I would imagine that sales of the C63 is higher than the 55, 32, 43, and 36 etc which preceded it.

At least AMG still offer an auto box!!

 

[st4]

No, virtually bullet proof, loads of people have done 150k miles on them now, and some of the tuners have done 200k on highly tuned ones.

There was a concern that some part may not have been up to spec and BMW did a recall for some of the very first 2001 cars.

Generally BMW engines are as reliable as any one else's, you hear a lot about the diesel turbos, but then the 3 series is the best selling mid sized saloon sold so you are going to hear about problems.

But then if the turbo goes on a 530d it is £800 to replace, what if the radiator goes on the E320cdi?? That can be a £10k bill. Now not sure how common this is but it would put many off.

I think you have to ignore the rumours about reliability, you would never buy anything.
My father in law has a garage and he sees more VAG diesels than anything else, he reckons by the time they are 7 years old they are a money pit.


I make a conscious effort to not look at forums for faults when looking for a car, you would never buy anything!!

£800 for a fault turbo, I heard it was more than that. I'd still have a petrol BM anyway...

 

[gIzzE]

I think the move to NA for the 6.2 AMG motor was probably driven by the desire to increase sales volumes. BMW have generally led the pack, with AMG and Audi more niche offerings.

The motoring press have a significant influence over buyer perceptions in this market, and journos tend to favour higher revving NA motors, rather than torquier lower revving FI motors.

I would imagine that sales of the C63 is higher than the 55, 32, 43, and 36 etc which preceded it.

At least AMG still offer an auto box!!

Yeah I think you're right, a NA does seem to cover all driving styles better, easier to waft around as below 3500rpm not a lot happens, and then when you want spirited driving you keep it beyond 4000rpm and all hell breaks loose. You get the best of both worlds.

The C63 is the first AMG car I have really wanted, I like the idea of the E55 Estate as I think that engine suits that car, but got very close to buying a CLS55 and then ended up with an M3 CSL instead.
The C63 Estate will get me out of my current M3 though, but I will wait till they are sub £35k, so that will be about xmas then the way things are going at the moment?!


What do you mean about the auto box??

The new M3 is available as manual or auto, it is the new Dual Clutch system and is seriously impressive, still prefer the SMG box, but as an auto the new one is amazing.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

AMG have stuck to autos throughout, and only more recently have BMW offered an auto option albeit twin-clutch.

I like autos, and I think they suit the traditional lazy hot rod character of AMGs of old.

 

[gIzzE]

This is a good video and I was quite amazed that the AMG was classed as a bit too hardcore for everyday use compared with the M car.


BMW M3 v Mercedes C63 AMG v Lexus IS-F on road

http://www.drivers-republic.com/dr_tv/

 

[Adam230K]

No, virtually bullet proof, loads of people have done 150k miles on them now, and some of the tuners have done 200k on highly tuned ones.

There was a concern that some part may not have been up to spec and BMW did a recall for some of the very first 2001 cars.

Generally BMW engines are as reliable as any one else's, you hear a lot about the diesel turbos, but then the 3 series is the best selling mid sized saloon sold so you are going to hear about problems.

But then if the turbo goes on a 530d it is £800 to replace, what if the radiator goes on the E320cdi?? That can be a £10k bill. Now not sure how common this is but it would put many off.

I think you have to ignore the rumours about reliability, you would never buy anything.
My father in law has a garage and he sees more VAG diesels than anything else, he reckons by the time they are 7 years old they are a money pit.


I make a conscious effort to not look at forums for faults when looking for a car, you would never buy anything!!

I'm sure they can get to any mileage if the owner is willing to spend money on it.

A 'performance' engine will always cost more in parts and maintenance than a non-tuned engine... and thats what scares me off the M cars.

I can just get a 500 merc engine or a BMW 540 (4.4litre NA) and i'd be more than happy with that.... its fast when it needs to be and not stressed at all.

But one thing about M3's i cant deny is how raw they are, the sound is just a small part of its character and i know if has other things that come to its credit. But when i want to buy a road car, thats not something i look for, if i ever wanted that i'd get a porsche 911 turbo for the road use, or an atom for the track.

 

[prc]

Yes, the 63 engine is probably better than the M3's V8 and all the CDi engines are better.


Because BMW diesels have this terrible problem of blown turbo's. I am convinced its becasue they run a very high boost pressure, the 120d boosts at 1.5bar, higher than a 997 Turbo. Consequently the engines fail and relatively low milliage. The Cdi's may not have such impressive figures or refinement but will go on a long way.

BMW are doing wonderful things with petrol engines, and I'd probably seriously give one another go.

You really can't compare boost pressure on diesels with petrol cars. The standard VW TDI (150hp version) also runs 1.5bar as standard (130hp version run 1.3bar). Yes, Even many of the small engine renaults (1.5L) run over 1.1bar. I do agree that the engines tend to be designed for more power and lower mileages (compared to the cdi's),


PS. I still own a 150hp tdi with over 400000Km (no blown turbo).