BMW struggle with Electric Cars

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by grober, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. grober

    grober MB Master

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  2. OP
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    grober

    grober MB Master

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  3. Steveml63

    Steveml63 MB Enthusiast

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    Hi,
    It seems that Elon Musk has really disrupted the car industry (as he normally does in all areas that he enters).
    More people are interested in electric cars - once you see things like a Tesla P100 doing sub 3 second 0-60 drag starts from the lights - in near silence!
    All the car manufacturers are keen to emulate his success and are now starting to look at producing electric vehicles that look good, go well and have a good range - the "holy grail" of green motoring.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  4. OP
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    grober

    grober MB Master

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    The key to mass adoption of electric cars is going to be-- infrastructure. Geographical availability of charging points, national generation capacity, battery and thus vehicle production rates. While electric car adoption rates are low these " choke points" to widespread adoption remain untested. It would appear developments in battery technology will remove "range anxiety" and interior volume demands in the relatively near future so these may no longer play a part. Their immediate use would appear to be in urban environments whose citizens are currently experiencing localised pollution health problems due to vehicle exhausts [ among other things] Restrictions to the use of internal combustion engines in these areas in the future would indicate this would be the primary growth/adoption area. The message being- want to drive/deliver in the city- get an electric car/van/bus/truck. :dk:
     
  5. tcb180

    tcb180 Active Member

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    One of my supervisors threw me keys of brand new suv thingy on Wednesday. A 225 Hybrid I think?

    Needed someone who could drive an automatic.

    Was ok but no where as near comfortable on the road than I was expecting.

    No instruction but managed to find my way around how to start stop and work aux brake etc.

    God knows how much it cost. But felt every road undulation.

    Guess I been E320 spoilt?
     
  6. OP
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    grober

    grober MB Master

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    This one? First drive: the BMW 225xe, a 4WD hybrid people carrier | Top Gear
    I suspect many hybrid/electric cars may have harder than average suspension to reduce rolling resistance? Its that or the suspension has not been recalibrated to take account of the extra weight of the batteries + electric motor [ this would apply to hybridised versions of normally internal combustion driven cars rather than cars designed as purely electric models from the off ?]
     
  7. st13phil

    st13phil MB Enthusiast

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    I think you're right, Graeme.

    I had a few miles in a BMW i3 as a passenger and also a short stint behind the wheel and the overriding impression was of a very hard ride - and I'm used to an E63!


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  8. ashenfie

    ashenfie Active Member

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    I have a Tesla Model 3 on order. Basically cars like the i3 don't compare well to a purpose built electric car.

    Basically Tesla has put the batteries in to the very bottom of the car as the motors are small enough not to need an engine bays.

    So only musk has a platform and when driving the a Tesla its not a bad ride.

    For Tesla to make all the Model 3 promised he needs to match the world total yearly lithium battery production in his own battery factory. No easy challenge when you look at the cost verse performance of his batteries verses ROW

    But then again Musk likes living on the edge as he already has SpaceX and Solar city projects on the go.

    Elon Musk i don't think cares too much what everyone else is doing. I think if we asked him he would say that he is a battery producer who happens to make cars i.e. the Apple model
     
  9. st13phil

    st13phil MB Enthusiast

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    I thought the i3 was a purpose built electric car?
     
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  10. wemorgan

    wemorgan MB Enthusiast

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    It is :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. OP
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    grober

    grober MB Master

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    That would be correct. In fact its more purpose-built than many "electrified" cars that are essentially conventionally pressed steel platform cars with a motor and batteries shoehorned into them. Problem is they are apparently very expensive to make. This may not be so important at the high end of the market but achieve the necessary mass market penetration they have to be affordable! The Mini E prototype followed by the i3 followed by the proposed NEW Electric mini may be a reflection of this manufacturing cost adjustment ??? No manufacturer is going to make cars that lose them money in the long term. Plaudits to BMW for venturing into the field . Somebody had to do it.

    ps the original mini was a revolution in car design and repackaging the established powerplant v passenger space.
    It would be fitting if the new Electric Mini with better batteries [ hopefully built in the UK] was the first electric car to break through the consumer resistance barrier to electric propulsion. The stakes are high as are the potential rewards
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017
  12. ashenfie

    ashenfie Active Member

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  13. OP
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    grober

    grober MB Master

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  14. wemorgan

    wemorgan MB Enthusiast

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    Unfortunately you're mistaken. The i3 is a ground-up EV design. The placement of the motor is the same as the Tesla.

    [​IMG]

    The mounting of the batteries to an aluminium underbody is also very similar:

    i3
    [​IMG]

    Tesla
    [​IMG]

    Where the i3 slightly differs is that is has space for a small petrol engine to act as a charger - but this is very different to the traditional hybrid cars you may be thinking of.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. OP
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    grober

    grober MB Master

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    Another B class electric drive review:-
    Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive | PluginCars.com

    with some real [ California! ] user experience. Owner uses a lot of solar energy- not something so available in the UK! Chief complaint seems to centre round the lack of a fast charge facility?
    https://cleantechnica.com/2015/11/0...drive-one-year-later-cleantechnica-exclusive/

    PS WONDER IF ANYONE ON THE FORUM HAS TAKEN THE ELECTRIC PLUNGE YET- SOMEONE WITH A RENAULT ZOE SEEMS TO RING A BELL ALTHO SOME USER EXPERIENCE OF AN ELECTRIC B CLASS WOULD BE GOOD?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017
  16. Charles Morgan

    Charles Morgan MB Enthusiast

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    Mocas has a Renault Zoe and loves it.

    A range extended BMW i3 is a lovely bit of kit.
     
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  17. wemorgan

    wemorgan MB Enthusiast

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    My sister has a Zoe too, on one of those bargain £99/month PCP/PCH deals. Ideal for those short journeys around the congested SE England. Together with a conventional fuelled car it makes a very good 2 car line up for them.

    About 6 months ago MB were offering B250e for £150/month. This seems to be the way OEM are getting customers in to these EV cars. Fixed priced, no depreciation or maintenance anxiety motoring. For many people, once they drive an EV their previous misconceptions soon change.
     
  18. OP
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    grober

    grober MB Master

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    grober

    grober MB Master

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  20. st13phil

    st13phil MB Enthusiast

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    Sorry Charles, but I think you might need your bumps felt.

    It's quirky and quite lively to drive, but the ride quality is terrible and the economics make no sense at all.


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