BMW urges UK scrapping incentive

[wemorgan]

BBC article.

Interesting idea..............but

how much CO2 is emitted in manufacturing a new efficient car and how does this compare to continue running an inefficient old car?

edit: here's an article I found that discusses how much CO2 is emitted in manufacturing a car. ~2 tonnes of CO2 to make a car, then ~2.5 tonnes each 15,000 km miles.

So comparing:

W202 C200 CO2=222g/km
W204 C180K BlueEffeciency CO2=173g/km

So 49 g/km of CO2 is saved which equates to 735kg of CO2 over 15,000km.
This gives a 3 year 'pay-back' for switching between these 2 cars.

 

[st13phil]

Forget the "green cloak" this is a plain, old-fashioned, demand-side stimulus package. Nothing wrong with that per-se, but don't claim spurious benefits for it (green or otherwise), as they won't stack up. Many of the "CO2 reduction" justifications for increasing consumption through premature replacement don't stack up if the whole-life of the product including the manufacturing and disposal cycles are considered. It's just part and parcel of the vocal single issue clap-trap that seems to drive political decision making these days

 

[st4]

BMW should think how supporting an incentive like this would say about their cars.
For me BMW is saying it doesn't intend, and cannot, build a car that can last 10yrs or more, and will therefore design them so they do not last as long (i.e. not build them as well). Even if I do not keep a car for 10yrs or more, I like the thought that it was built to last, and that it doesn't have a definate life dictated thru shoddy build, or EU legistlation.

 

[popuptoaster]

AAARRGGH not this again, every country (or state in america) that has gone with this initiative has lost some very interesting old vehicles, all those classic and potential classics sitting garages because they are not yet worth enough money to sell on but to good to scrap, the barn finds of the future and the classic, one owner from new car thats come up for sale because the original owner is now to old to drive suddenly become worth money and end up getting scrapped, and they are usually not availabe to buy as the cntracts stipulate they must be scrapped, cant remember which state it is but they have an agreement that if a car is historically important then it can be stored for a number of weeks and parts can be taken from it, but it hasnt stopped the loss of things like dodge chargers and old mustangs.

My coupe could have been cubed by now for instance had this been in effect in this country, its not complicated, planning on buying a new car? hunt around for old car for sale for a few hundred quid, buy it and exchange it for your new car discount, the old car that could have been brought back to life or have years left in it is now cut up for scrap, bad bad bad bad idea!!!

 

[st4]

**** that old CO2 cr4p. The governments just want to get folk out of older interesting cars into snotty euro/eco boxes terrified that we a) speed b) pollute and emit some small amount of a non consequential gas.

This is euro-socialism at its height.

 

[Antharro]

**** that old CO2 cr4p. The governments just want to get folk out of older interesting cars into snotty euro/eco boxes terrified that we a) speed b) pollute and emit some small amount of a non consequential gas.

This is euro-socialism at its height.

Hear hear.

 

[wemorgan]

It now looks like this scheme is more than likely going to happen.
BBC link.

What if anything will happen to second-hand car values?

 

[trapperjohn]

I like a bit of class in what I drive, even if it is "old" So is 2K for a scrapper going to give me the incentive to go into hock, for say, 14 - 20K (for something new and techied beyond the witt of man) I dont think so!! I heard in Germany when this came in, everyone went out and bought French cheap cars. Not exactly what they thought would happen. How about a cut in income tax /corporation tax and NHI contributions for firms and individuals. Then the whole market could get moving not just cars! Govt gets its money back easy, as people spend more - across the board. Forget all the green rubbish too - Generation X(Box) runs the country now. More ticks in boxes than a lottery stake slip on a triple rollover.

 

[st13phil]

From the BBC article:

"This scheme won't create jobs and it won't help the environment. All that you're going to get is a switch to more polluting, bigger vehicles. And that's not going to help anyone," said Peter Cranie of the Green Party.

I must admit, I'm not convinced by the "green" arguments around a scrappage scheme, but if it p*sses off the Green Party then it's got to be a good idea

 

[wemorgan]

I'm not sure there is a genuine green angle to this story. I believe it is simply there to stimulate consumer spending. I'm happy for that to be the case, but just wish it was being marketed as that.

 

[Dieselman]

Why do people think this is going to cost anything in tax.?

So the Govt. shells out up to a maximum of £2k and the buyer spends, say £12k on a new car.

Deficit = £2k,
tax recovered = car sales tax, Vat, Salesman's income tax, corporation tax, manufacturers employee and corporation tax, etc, etc...

All of those taxes paid back will bring in a nett gain of thousands and stimulate the car manufacturers and sellers economy no end.

The only argument I can see is why shore up a beligued industry.? The industry would survive without this, just at the correct level, just like any other industry.

 

[nick mercedes]

The only argument I can see is why shore up a beligued industry.? The industry would survive without this, just at the correct level, just like any other industry.

Plus its all foreign owned, so why waste taxpayers money to shore up foreign businesses?

Is the lack of credit a bigger problem?

You can get at least £2k knocked off just about any new car or van at present, but given most are brought on credit and it's harder for people to get.......

 

[stevesey]

Surely this will only stimulate the bottom end of the car market, how many people running a sub £2k can afford to trade up to a £20k car, even £10K would be pushing the boat out for a lot of people. Personally I've never spent more than £5K on a car - and I can't see anything less than 1 year old in that price range that I'd be seen dead driving.

Of course if this goes ahead I can see Tata bring forward their plans to release the Nano in the UK.

Supermini prices could get very distorted by this - 1 year old second hand prices will fall as a result of the effective discount, but older superminis won't fall as far as they are effectively worth £2K when you buy the next one.

 

[jaymanek]

this will be great.. just imagine the sub industry that will be created.. im sure the dealers will be happy to buy up old scrappers for £500 and sell them to the government for £2K a go..

Cant see how they will police this..

 

[stevesey]

Cant see how they will police this..

Qualifying ownership period of 6 months say?

Even then if you've got the space £1500 profit for having the car (and £500) sat around for 6 months ain't bad.

 

[Dieselman]

I thought the £200 was paid on purchase of a new car, not on scrapping of the old one, so if there is no new car sale then there won't be a payment.

 

[stevesey]

I thought the £200 was paid on purchase of a new car, not on scrapping of the old one, so if there is no new car sale then there won't be a payment.

I'm sure traders can come up with suitable scams e.g. buying and selling the same 1 month old car between two traders multiple times over 11 months collecting 2K each time (getting rid of cheap trade-ins at the same time).

 

[st4]

I'm sure traders can come up with suitable scams e.g. buying and selling the same 1 month old car between two traders multiple times over 11 months collecting 2K each time (getting rid of cheap trade-ins at the same time).

Like carousel fraud

 

[jaymanek]

I thought the £200 was paid on purchase of a new car, not on scrapping of the old one, so if there is no new car sale then there won't be a payment.

yes but not everyone buying a new car will be trading in a scrapper so im sure dealers will find a way...

 

[Dieselman]

Stock piling them already are you Jay..