Brake Calliper Query

[gibsonk]

I have been looking at upgrading my callipers on my W204 350cdi, the c63 option is quite expensive but is probably gold standard.

I have seen there is a mid range caliper on the W205, not the full monty C63 but a much better looking caliper than I have.

My question is do you think these will be an easy retrofit, I probably know the answer as anything with Mercedes is not simple, but here's hoping.

If anyone has some knowledge on this that would be great.

This is the calliper in question

 

[Doodle]

The first question would be "why?". Unless you're looking to track the car, the standard brakes are almost always up to the job on modern vehicles. If they're not it's usually down to neglect or requiring servicing. If you're already able to bring the ABS in, the tyres are the limiting factor, not the brakes. Changing them won't help you stop faster, they just increase the consistency under duress.

Therefore the second question would be "How much are you willing to spend on something cosmetic?". Swapping brakes isn't necessarily straightforward, consideration needs to be given to physically mounting the caliper and getting a disc to line up. If you're lucky this happens off the shelf. If it doesn't, you're messing around with mounting brackets and/or different discs. Then you need to consider master/slave ratio on the cylinders, getting that wrong will just make things worse than before.

Unless you're lucky enough to find someone who's done this specific conversion before (which is perhaps unlikely given the target and donor vehicles), you've got to work it out on your own and that can get expensive, especially if having to pay for the expertise of others.

A quick look at some google images suggests the W204 uses a sliding caliper, in which case the chances of getting the W205 caliper to mount without an adaptor are questionable.

 

[WOODYTHEWISE]

Your insurance is another factor to be considered...fitting none standard brakes...

 

[zenman63]

Another point if going from sliding to 4 or 6 pot callipers is wheel clearance, sliders have the piston on the inside.
I would just service the brakes with new cross drilled discs if you can and quality pads.

 

[gibsonk]

The first question would be "why?". Unless you're looking to track the car, the standard brakes are almost always up to the job on modern vehicles. If they're not it's usually down to neglect or requiring servicing. If you're already able to bring the ABS in, the tyres are the limiting factor, not the brakes. Changing them won't help you stop faster, they just increase the consistency under duress.

Therefore the second question would be "How much are you willing to spend on something cosmetic?". Swapping brakes isn't necessarily straightforward, consideration needs to be given to physically mounting the caliper and getting a disc to line up. If you're lucky this happens off the shelf. If it doesn't, you're messing around with mounting brackets and/or different discs. Then you need to consider master/slave ratio on the cylinders, getting that wrong will just make things worse than before.

Unless you're lucky enough to find someone who's done this specific conversion before (which is perhaps unlikely given the target and donor vehicles), you've got to work it out on your own and that can get expensive, especially if having to pay for the expertise of others.

A quick look at some google images suggests the W204 uses a sliding caliper, in which case the chances of getting the W205 caliper to mount without an adaptor are questionable.

Thanks for the response, the brakes are adequate, i recently replaced all the discs and Pads to Brembo (Original Fit), fluid changed and yes while they do the job they are nothing to shout home about.

Having come from cars running AP Racing (Early Leon Cupra R) and Brembo (Honday DC5 Type R), the standard Merc ones leave something to be desired.

I am running 4 new Pilot Sport 4 all round and can fire the ABS in the wet, dry salty or really cold roads\tyres. If i really slam on in the dry intermittently but that could be a crappy surface, my car is running around 300bhp and 650nm it can take some hauling up at times, the bite and brake feel isn't there compared to AP or Brembo's, yes i can stick some Red Stuff, Yellow Stuff pads in but them i am not hitting the issue at source, I don't think it would take very long to overheat the current setup on a spirited run ( i have not tried it).

The obvious answer is C63 setup, but out of curiosity i queried about the W205, they look far more substantial and if anyone had done it experience is invaluable, and to be honest a good degree of changing them is cosmetics, I don't like how my current ones look (TRW i think)

Tyres and Brakes are the two things that should come first on any car, everything else is secondary, they will save your and others life

 

[gibsonk]

Your insurance is another factor to be considered...fitting none standard brakes...

All my mods are declared

 

[gibsonk]

Another point if going from sliding to 4 or 6 pot callipers is wheel clearance, sliders have the piston on the inside.
I would just service the brakes with new cross drilled discs if you can and quality pads.

I have already done that, fitted Brembo Discs and Pads all round and changed the fluid, but they just don't delight, although are adequate.

 

[gibsonk]

A quick look at some google images suggests the W204 uses a sliding caliper, in which case the chances of getting the W205 caliper to mount without an adaptor are questionable.

I missed this bit, i guess that's a show stopper from the outset, while I don't think it will fit, is the swap to C63 brakes not the same must use a similar adaptor.

 

[zenman63]

C63 might just fit but expensive even used, and you might need the wheels as well to go over them.

 

[gibsonk]

C63 might just fit but expensive even used, and you might need the wheels as well to go over them.

Looking like the only option or K-Sport or similar, which work out a little cheaper and will have warranty.

My wheels are good, they are 18's from a C63, type IV I think?

 

[Doodle]

The benefit of C63 brakes is that if you take them from the 204, the uprights/hub carriers are more likely to be the same and therefore an easier fit.

Given the chosen yardstick it's not surprising the brakes feel a bit lacklustre though (this from the man who looked at fitting 6 pots and 2 piece discs to his FD2). You say you're not dealing with the problem at source by changing pads, but in truth the pads have a significant influence on the initial bite characteristics. The bigger discs and pads will help deal with any heat capacity issues, but you say those haven't been encountered yet.

 

[gibsonk]

The benefit of C63 brakes is that if you take them from the 204, the uprights/hub carriers are more likely to be the same and therefore an easier fit.

Given the chosen yardstick it's not surprising the brakes feel a bit lacklustre though (this from the man who looked at fitting 6 pots and 2 piece discs to his FD2). You say you're not dealing with the problem at source by changing pads, but in truth the pads have a significant influence on the initial bite characteristics. The bigger discs and pads will help deal with any heat capacity issues, but you say those haven't been encountered yet.

The C350CDI is not my first choice of car but a Wife and two kids means the likes of the DC5 are no good anymore and I wasn't getting a 63 past the wifey (at the moment)...

I have seen a few posts where people have fit C63 brakes its certainly a doable prospect, just very expensive for used brakes, K-Sport are cheaper and a nice piece of kit.

I agree the pads will make a difference but would be happier with a complete solution, and it looks better.

The only reason i haven't encountered heat issues is I haven't pushed it like that, given the hauling up it takes i imagine I could cook them pretty quickly.

Brakes and Tyres are a important thing to me even if on the road you cant use them to their full potential.

 

[markjay]

From my days moding cars.....

You can change the dics and pads to get better 'bite', though this usually means poor braking until the brakes reach their optimal operating temperature (depending on whether you go for fast road setup or for race/track setup).

We used Tarox and EBC as upgrade to the standard discs and pads. Same dimensions, different friction properties.

But the purpose of fitting groved, ventilated, or larger discs, is to solve one problem only, and that's brake fade. It means the discs can't dissipate the heat fast enough, the brakes exceed their operating temperature and the friction material loses its properties (been there - scary feeling). This is a function of the car's weight, how hard the brakes are used, and the ambient temperature.

But if the brakes do not overheat, these changes will only be cosmetic and not change the way the car brakes.

The calipper design (no. of pistons, sliding, etc) will affect response time and provide better control, but will not increase the braking power as such. This is simply down to the force acting on the pad.

 

[Doodle]

One think I would check with K-Sport is that they actually match the piston sizes in the caliper to the master cylinder in use. The last time I had dealings with them (some time back), it was the same caliper for a variety of applications despite wildly different piston sizes, which led to some less than favourable results.