Brake upgrades

Discussion in 'Wheels, Tyres, Brakes & Suspension' started by Koolvin, Oct 9, 2002.

  1. Koolvin

    Koolvin Administrator Staff Member

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    these brakes available in both FRONT and REAR

    I want to get these brakes for Looks, but what do you guys SUGGEST i get? I dont want to loose my braking power I currently have! BTW, they are available for most mercedes!!

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Created from Brembo performance castings for ultimate braking, excellent heat dissipation - reduced fade - increased stopping performance
    Unique CAD designed grooves optimise gas and debris removal
    Huge range of fitements - choice of GR10 RS10 or GR20 types - if your car isnt listed call us.
    </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

    3G

    [​IMG]


    10 Groove:


    [​IMG]

    20 groove

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Simon

    Simon Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    For what it's worth, I like the look of the top one.

    Shame there wasn't four, you could have one of each then <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/withstupid.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':silly:'>
     
  3. Sp!ke

    Sp!ke Administrator Staff Member

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    I notice from the design that they are all directional, so left and rights should be different.

    Also, are the holes in the foirst one drilled right through or are they just recesses? Reecesses will block with cr*p in no time at all as will the grooves if my experience is anything to go by.

    It doesnt say what the material is. Brembro's are normally cast iron - yep you heard me *iron*. Iron has a high coefficient of friction so works well on the one hand but weighs an &nbsp;absolute ton thus increasing unsprung weight and also rusts like buggery. If it is made &nbsp;of anything but a good grade of stainless steel then its gonna look crap anyway after only one days rain so if you are going to buy them for cosmetic purposes it probably best to stay clear.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Koolvin

    Koolvin Administrator Staff Member

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    Yep they are 'dimples' and not drilled.

    So you rekon I should stay clear of these because they will rust?
     
  5. Sp!ke

    Sp!ke Administrator Staff Member

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    No, not necessarily coz at the moment you haven't said what they are made out of. However if these have 'dimples' as you say then my attitude is that the manufacturers do not know what the #### they are doing.

    How is a dimple going to clear itself of all the brake dust and crud that will get in there? Answer - its not. Thats why most racing disks are drilled right through, OK OK there's reduced weight as well but I betcha you will be disapointed with the results if you bought these. &nbsp; &nbsp;<img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/butbut.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':butbut:'>
     
  6. Dave B

    Dave B Active Member

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    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dont want to loose my braking power I currently have! </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

    K:  What makes you think braking performance would deteriorate - I thought (good quality) grooved/drilled discs improved braking.

    What you really need is a set of Porsche brakes  <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Koolvin

    Koolvin Administrator Staff Member

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    They are made out of CAST IRON, I just rang them up.

    The dimples are just for looks : here is a link to their website.


    http://www.3gbrakes.co.uk
     
  8. jimmy

    jimmy Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Dimples are used rather than straight through holes or cross drilled as they are known, as the holes cause a weak spot where cracking can start. The grooves are to aid the dispersal of gasses and to some extent dust caused during braking. All grooved discs are directional. The depth of these grooves would not have as much effect on cooling as cross drilled ones do. I would imagine the dimples are simply for decoration.

    We sell some Porsche, Ferrari and BMW discs that are cross drilled and/or grooved as they are OE equipment. However the grooves do not last very long as they are not very deep and the pad wear is probably twice as much as plain discs.

    Most brake discs are made of scrap or cast iron, some have an amount of zinc added or are coated with zinc to reduce rusting.

    Generally speaking you can't beat MB OE specification brakes, although I am surprised at how many MB's have solid discs, probably the cause of warped discs on many a MB. You could upgrade to 202T (Estate) brakes as they are vented, but would mean changing calipers too.
     
  9. Sp!ke

    Sp!ke Administrator Staff Member

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    OK, let me get this straight.

    1. &nbsp; They are made out of a pre-war braking material.

    2. &nbsp; They are also cast rather than machined so they will also inherantly have defects in the casting.

    3. &nbsp; The design is fundamentally flawed - The dimples would fill with brake dust and then wear grooves in your pads, accelerating wear on the pads whilst at the same time create unwanted circular grooves in the disks thus reducing breaking performance and wrecking the disks....all &quot;just for looks&quot;.

    I just cant believe that people can be allowed to sell this rubbish for road use as potentially it could be dangerous. In fact I would go as far as saying that I bet they are not 'Type approved' and hence *ARE* illegal for use in many parts of the world.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Koolvin

    Koolvin Administrator Staff Member

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    guess I'll stick to what I have then eh!?! <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wallbash.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':bash:'>
     
  11. jimmy

    jimmy Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2.   They are also cast rather than machined so they will also inherantly have defects in the casting.
    </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

    I think you will find all brake discs are cast from a mould and then machined to get the final finish and exact measurements.

    A raw casting is very rough and can no way be used as it is.
     
  12. fuzzer

    fuzzer MB Club Veteran

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    I thought most c class's vat vent discs on the front and soild on the back.
     
  13. V12

    V12 MB Club Veteran

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    Merc discs rust like anything!!!!

    When you drive a mile down the road, all the rust has been forced off during braking...

    Mercs are renouned for stopping in any condition, and i personally dont see any need to uprate brakes on any merc, unless you have a mental engine conversion or something... <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/slayer.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rock:'>
     
  14. Paul

    Paul Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    My old Passat had cast iron disc's. I had never seen them before except on Italian motorbikes.

    When I went to look at the car I thought the calipers had siezed as the disc were a bit rusty, but as soon as I drove the car it all went.

    I then noticed that as soon as I washed the car the disc's turned ginger almost straight away and the pads stuck slightly to the disc's.

    This caused a very slight thump when you first pulled away as the pads freed themselves from the pads <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>
     
  15. Mark300SL

    Mark300SL 1962-2010. Gone, but not forgotten.

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    I have high performance disks on my Rover abd on My CRX, on both cars the performance increase was VERY measurable! The Rover now has brakes that give me confidence - and the difference on the CRX is astounding.

    All said and done however - the Brakes on the SL are better than either car!

    Brembo are a very respected brake manufacturer, and these are a definate improvment over std brembo discs.

    If you dont drive your car 10/10ths alll the time and you dont suffer from brake fade -then stick with OEM - If you are going to fit the turbo and you feel the brakes could do with improvment - then do it for the right reasons.

    Remember the brakes will be louder, the pads will wear quicker and because you can use them harder you will - therefore they are more likely to warp than std. Add to that the grooves will need cleaning out every few days/weeks -  but the trackday performance wil be impressive!

    Its a compromise - noise, expense and cleaning - against better fade resistance and performance!

    HTH - not confuses <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

    Mark
     
  16. Richard W

    Richard W Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Well, what a thread!<img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wallbash.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':bash:'>

    Cast Iron has been used for discs pretty much since they were first used. The composition of the iron determines the heat range and the more complex such as Brembo Gp N cost substantially more than std fit.

    The ONLY road cars which DON'T have iron discs are a few examples of the early Elise (steel I think - wasn't suitable for road use) and there has been rumours that the new SLR Merc will have carbon ones.

    F1 and other race cars use carbon discs and pads (matched in sets and throw them away after 1 race). You can get carbon metallic pads for high performance use but these work on - yes you nguessed it - iron discs.

    If you have a look round you'll see that some high performance road cars have alloy 'bells' which the discs attach to these can then be anodised to add colour or you can paint the calipers, but short of buying some of these drilled &amp; grooved discs then iron is the only material available. If you question the effectiveness then have a look at the ones fitted to the WRC cars, or have a look here: &nbsp;Brembo - Production

    Brakes are there to stop the car and IMHO any upgrade of the braking system should be to improve the performance and not to look good - I do understand the desire to make every element of a well built/prepared car to a high standard (I've worked on both concours and track/rally cars so I do know the difference) - but there is only so far you can go with something like brakes! Listen to what Mark says about high performance kit - he's right!

    Well after that little rant I'm now ready to be shot down!

    R
     
  17. Sp!ke

    Sp!ke Administrator Staff Member

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    Well all I can say is that in the motorcycle world, the disks have been made out of stainless steel for donkeys years.

    On 'Race' bikes (road legal ones) the disks are also excessivly drilled and rarely have fracturing or cracking problems. These disks are often less than 2.5mm thick and have six pot calipers applying serious braking power to them.

    The only justification to cast iron disks as far as I am concerned it cost. Genuine replacement Motorcycle disks are around £750 for the set of three   <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'> If you couple that with the fact that you can get through them every 20,000 miles then I guess cast iron makes sence. However, car disks are thicker and should last a lot longer. besides which, if we are talking performance, life should be immaterial.

    To give you an idea about technology used in motorcycle braking, have a look at the image below. This really is pushing the boundraries in reducing unsprung weight.

    Scratch that, the image is too big. Check the link instead

    Click here
     
  18. Richard W

    Richard W Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Thanks Spike! I thought the carriers were simmilar to a 'bell' and the discs themselves were iron.

    Learn something new every day.

    R
     
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