Briatore's Crashgate

[RoseTattoo]

I always found him and his style distatsteful. He was the sort of person of whom I thought you would have to count your fingers after shaking hands. In my experience such people are usually smart enough to stay above the spilling of blood and so it is a surprise to see him getting caught. It begs, for me, a number of questions on the assumption that his resignation is a virtual admission of guilt.
1. He is also head of FOTA, the organisation that was trying to organise a breakaaway. Will he remain there and what does it do for thecredibility of that organisation? Will any team still wnat to be a member?
2. I read that Briatore, lifelong QPR fan and passionate supporter of football, evidenced by his visiting the club once before his and Bernie's takeover, will be allowed to continue as a director. Not a direct connection to motor-racing but still a sport, nevertheless.
3. M. Schumacher's barging off Damon Hill in order to win the championship - is this not an act from the same mould as Picquet's? Arguably it could have been more damgerous as another driver was targetted?
4. Given that J. Todt was leader of Ferrari at that time (this is more assumption and I have not checked the dates) would this not cause a question mark to be raised against his potential Presidency of the FIA?

 

[PXW]

Don't know all the answers and have never shaken Briatore's hand, but:

1. I very much doubt it. I think he is finished in F1. If he does stay, then the organisation's credibility is shot and it becomes an overnight irrelevance.
2. You fail the 'fit and proper person' test for football club ownership if you are barred by any sporting organisation, IIRC. Have also read that Mittal is looking to buy him out of QPR.
3. Arguably yes - don;t know enough about the team peripherals at the time to make a judgment though, and I suspect this one will just lie on the files.
4. No idea..! I personally would be careful about trying to extrapolate the damage too far - also applies a bit to 3. above.

PXW

 

[Mudster]

On point 3, this does actually differ. M Schumacher took it upon himself to create a "Racing incident" should the situation arise...and it did.

Renault created a premeditated event at a specific corner to engineer a specific outcome.

It's the premeditated part and the fact it was a team instruction that takes this to a different league altogether.

This makes Mclaren's transgression pale into insignificance.

I really feel that Renault have no future in the sport as a result of this incident.

 

[Mudster]

Well it looks like Renault have been told "Not to do it again" and have a suspended expulsion hanging over them until the 2011 season - no fine.

I've just heard this on the news and have no written details as yet.

What a nonsense..Basically they've been told if they do it again in the next 18 months they're out for good, if they are good boys they stay in..

I bet Mclaren are delighted.....

 

[Chattonmill]

I do hope you are joking!
No Fine, no punishment, Maclaren must have something to say about that!

 

[Mudster]

Just stated on the TV news I'm trying to find a link to it at the moment.

Two Year suspended Ban...no fine, no punishment.....

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/21092009/58/renault-handed-suspended-ban.html

FIA press release:-

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wmsc/2009/Pages/wmsc_210909.aspx


Well, they all said "Yes we did it" and "We're really really sorry"....that's Okay boys don't do it again matter closed....

They must be fuking joking!

 

[Mactech]

I have had a fair bit of contact with the FIA over the years. I've been the one trying to push the regulations to the very edge to make cars go quicker and in later years one of those who helped shape the regulations to balance speed and safety. All my contact has been at a technical and not political level. On a technical level the FIA must be congratulated for the way have advanced the safety not only of race cars, but that of road cars.
On a politcal level under the 'leadership' of Mosley I struggle to make sense of their decisions
For a crime 'much more serious' (quote Mosley) than the spygate affair there is virtually no sanction!
Piquet senior was not averse to some rule bending whilst driving at Brabham where now race director Charlie Whitting was chief mechanic (the ultimate pocher turned gamekeeper?) and is maybe a case of like father like son.
On a darker side, Mad Max has now managed to get rid of the two poeople who threatened his power base: 'best friend' Ron Dennis and now 'looney' Flav before he 'gracefully' retires!
The FIA needs a new President...like now....and perhaps a Finn?

 

[PXW]

I'm appalled. No massive fine? No exclusion from the current constructors' championship? No sanctions at all so long as in the next two years they don't deliberately crash to cheat the result of a race? Extraordinary. This is the future of F1 - do whatever you like at whatever potential human or economic cost, and just make sure you have a senior scapegoat lined up for if you ever get caught.

 

[Dryce]

For a crime 'much more serious' (quote Mosley) than the spygate affair there is virtually no sanction!

This looks more personal than corporate in the sense that the bans on Symonds and Briatore are punishments against people. Whereas with McLaren it was corporate.

It's in line with the paltry smack on the wrist to Ferrari and Schumacher after the Villeneuve collision in '97.

So in that sense it's consistent. But not in a good way.

IMHO - at a minimum:

Renault and its drivers should have had all points stripped for last year and this year. A 2 year suspended ban on the whole team including Alonso.

As for Alonso I think it's been a whitewash in the sense that he's been allowed the Manuel defence "I know nothing".

 

[Dryce]

I'm appalled. No massive fine? No exclusion from the current constructors' championship? No sanctions at all so long as in the next two years they don't deliberately crash to cheat the result of a race? Extraordinary.

It takes a certain amount of moral and intellectual courage and objectivity to actually impose fair and consistent penalties across a commercially driven sport.

Not much sign of either of the above in F1 IMHO.

 

[C43AMG]

Ferrari will still take Alonso next year.

 

[RoseTattoo]

Just playing devil's advocate, let's say that Renault knew nothing about this until the allegations were made. They conduct their own investigation and find the allegations are true. They are appalled and take immediate action; Briatore and Symonds out and litigation cancelled. Appear before FIA and own up to everything. They could not have done more.
Yes they could. As part of tehir governance, given that tehy could draw great benfit from success and identifying with the Renault F1 image, they had a responsibility to ensure that what was done in their name was done properly. This they failed to do and thus, in my view they are guilty. Ignorance, whether wilful or not is not an excuse.
Conversely it appears that McLaren tried a cover-up and Ron was implicated.

 

[andy_k]

I doubt that Renault F1 as an organisation knew about this. I am 100% that Renault the company knew nothing of it so why should they be punished?

As soon as the allegations became public they held an internal suggestion and sacked the individuals (and that is all it seems to be) concerned.

If you owned a company and two of your employees did something illgal without your knowledge would you think it fair if you were punished?

 

[PXW]

I doubt that Renault F1 as an organisation knew about this. I am 100% that Renault the company knew nothing of it so why should they be punished?

As soon as the allegations became public they held an internal suggestion and sacked the individuals (and that is all it seems to be) concerned.

If you owned a company and two of your employees did something illgal without your knowledge would you think it fair if you were punished?

Well, yes actually. It's a bit old fashioned of me I admit, but I still think that it's OK for a company to be fined/punished for the misdeeds of its staff even when the directors didn't know about it, and that it's OK for a government minister to have to resign because of the errors of his department, even though he didn't personally know about it. To my mind that is the essence of having, and taking responsibility and is the cost that comes with the privilege of high office (within whatever context).

 

[Mudster]

Well, yes actually. It's a bit old fashioned of me I admit, but I still think that it's OK for a company to be fined/punished for the misdeeds of its staff even when the directors didn't know about it, and that it's OK for a government minister to have to resign because of the errors of his department, even though he didn't personally know about it. To my mind that is the essence of having, and taking responsibility and is the cost that comes with the privilege of high office (within whatever context).

Both individuals (Briatore and Simmonds) were employees of Renault and very highly renumerated.

With that cash comes responsibility, not only responsibility to fall on your own sword, but to upkeep the name of the employer.

It's not as though they were sub contracted individuals acting in their own best interest, they were acting on behalf of a major manufacturer. that manufacturer takes responsibility for it's employees actions.

 

[andy_k]

I see your point (to a degree) but Renault F1 UK isn't Renault (motor manufacturer) France.

I believe that the top of the foodchain in the UK is Alain Dassas - he appears to have escaped any form of punishment despite being the one that Briatore must surely answer to

 

[Blackwaterslim]

Briatore is a gangster..the whole motorsport thing stinks, always has done...just have a good look around the paddock of F1, someone tipped off the press about Mosely (he had been at it for years...er and I guess still is) Flava flav had his front door blown off, his old boss was blown up! and he was exiled to some sunny clime..nah he is the tip of the iceberg...remember Vic Lee....importing Cocaine in his acetylene tanks...a chap in the pits at Le Mans told me that Vic had upset 'the lads' so they stitched him up....off to watch the hillclimb worst that can happen is the guy in the sprite looses his tweed cap! Still watch the bloody race on sunday though..hard to b reak a 30 year habit........celebrity, playboys art cha sick of em!