British jobs for British people

[markjay]

...Here is a link to what the Economist thinks about it:

Immigration to Britain: Blaming foreigners for being employable | The Economist

Thanks for this useful link. The last paragraph says what I had in mind in a much clearer way:

'...Mr Duncan Smith, being a man who lives in the real world, knows that any number of laws, both European and domestic, prevent British employers from discriminating on grounds of nationality. So he is calling for something that is not going to happen and cannot happen. And yet lots of newspaper readers and viewers of television news are going to come away with the impression that Mr Duncan Smith is saying that this will or should happen: he is after all the work and pensions secretary....'

...Anyway this is a Mercedes Benz forum and I think we are getting on peoples nerves.

[/QUOTE]

Indeed - all I intended for was a discussion about IDS remarks - which, as an employer, I found infuriating. IDS is trying to make the public think that the UK unemployment issue is because of people like me. It is not!

 

[stevieb15]

Thanks for this useful link. The last paragraph says what I had in mind in a much clearer way:

'...Mr Duncan Smith, being a man who lives in the real world, knows that any number of laws, both European and domestic, prevent British employers from discriminating on grounds of nationality. So he is calling for something that is not going to happen and cannot happen. And yet lots of newspaper readers and viewers of television news are going to come away with the impression that Mr Duncan Smith is saying that this will or should happen: he is after all the work and pensions secretary....'

Indeed - all I intended for was a discussion about IDS remarks - which, as an employer, I found infuriating. IDS is trying to make the public think that the UK unemployment issue is because of people like me. It is not![/QUOTE]

and people on forums always end up discussing the things that interest them most.
For what its worth many immigrants have contributed greatly to our nation, unfortunately many others haven't and have no intention of changing.
Whilst I agree skilled, professionals are welcome, unskilled menial labourers should not be granted entry, we have plenty of our own ideally qualified for the roles they can fulfill.
Equally we need to get away from the notion so many of our country embrace, that its ok not to contribute....for my money only the young the old and the infirm get a free ride, for everyone else , if you don't work you don't eat.

 

[nick mercedes]

"It is local jobs for local people, but in Germany"

Bombardier cuts 1,400 jobs after German rival wins Thameslink contract | Business | guardian.co.uk

 

[E CLASS]

I was just about to post the above and that just sums it all up.

This country has well and truly sold itself out.

We need to take a leaf out of French way of doing things.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

We need to take a leaf out of French way of doing things.

That way of protesting was 'crushed' by the milk snatcher in the 80s and now when people stand up for themselves, others are too scared or selfish to back them up.

Viva la Revolucion!

 

[stevieb15]

That way of protesting was 'crushed' by the milk snatcher in the 80s and now when people stand up for themselves, others are too scared or selfish to back them up.

Viva la Revolucion!

I'm not sure if you're old enough to remember but, when the "milk snatcher" assumed the reins of our nation in 1979 it was on its knees, trade union militancy had destroyed much of Britains manufacturing base, anything that was nationally owned made massive loses and we had just come out of the so called Winter of Discontent, on top of all this the nation was effectively bankrupt.....its the state that most periods of socialist government leaves nations in, pretty well exactly the same as the Blair/Brown era.
Now I don't think this Cameron regime is much better than Browns but one thing is beyond arguement both are infinity inferior to the government led by Margaret Thatcher, what a shame we don't have someone of her status, integrity, determination, vision and intellect to lead us now!

 

[swannymere]

Margaret Thatcher, what a shame we don't have someone of her status, integrity, determination, vision and intellect to lead us now!

Yep, she had vision all right, she sold off all the industry regardless of wether it was making money and all the housing stock, touch of genius. She should have gone to SpecSavers the vile old cow Oh and for the record i vote Tory.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Stevieb,
I'm not old enough to remember her coming to power, I had to grew up through the aftermath.
It comes across that you did well out of the 'Thatcher years'. I'm glad someone did.
The benefits culture that so many people on this forum berate was started by Thatcher. Not knowing what to do with the masses that she had just thrown onto the scrapheap and to massage the unemployment figures, she put them on 'the sick'. The sane culture that no succeeding government has got to grips with.
I simply want people to earn a fair days wage for a fair days pay. Nothing more, nothing less.
Besides how she 'crushed' the unions, what did she actually achieve? What has been her lasting legacy? In positive terms?

 

[crockers]

Stevieb,
What has been her lasting legacy?

To leave a self centred Society driven by greed and no social conscience.?
Or a land of entrepreneurs ?

Delete which ever you feel is appropriate..

 

[stevieb15]

Sweetpea and Crockers you have every right to your views however ill informed and misguided
For the record I did vote Tory in the last election, but only to ensure an expenses fiddling MP lost their seat but will probably never vote for them again.
MT made many mistakes, one of the greatest being to sell off many nationally owned businesses for a fraction of their apparent worth and most have florished in the private sector, proving if anyone had any doubts thats the public sector is incapable of managing winners let alone not for profit organisations, but.....she had vision, was not constrained by a narrow self interest of "what will my next job or legacy be" and refused to be cowed by wimps and w*****s or political correctness.
The great thing she did was allow many "working class" people to buy their house from their local authority and thereby making the greatest contribution to a more equal society and a fairer distribution of wealth than anyone in my lifetime.

 

[Dryce]

Stevieb,
I'm not old enough to remember her coming to power, I had to grew up through the aftermath.

Which means you actually grew up in the aftermath of the 70s.

The benefits culture that so many people on this forum berate was started by Thatcher. Not knowing what to do with the masses that she had just thrown onto the scrapheap and to massage the unemployment figures, she put them on 'the sick'. The sane culture that no succeeding government has got to grips with.

The benefits culture was inherited from more than one previous government.

I simply want people to earn a fair days wage for a fair days pay. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think you'll find that all governments claim that. But the one during the 70s had a rather more envious position of what a days pay might be.

Besides how she 'crushed' the unions, what did she actually achieve? What has been her lasting legacy? In positive terms?

Thatcher gets the blame for a load of stuff. Some is deserved. Some is not.

If the country gets through this period then Cameron will be remembered and blamed for much of what had to be done to repair the damage that was inherited.

70s Britain was an odd place by today's standards. Taxes were punitive. The unions ruled in ways that are now long forgotten (people don't talk about demarkation, closed shop and collective bargaining any more). The country had to be bailed out by the IMF. Massive industrial unrest threatened. Then there was the cold war and associated politics hanging over.

So most of what happened during the first half of the eighties was a follow on from the previous decade and the ruin.

Regardless of what the right-on alternative comedians of the time thought and the retrospective apologists for 70s Labour think, the country was a better place by the end of the 80s. And if people don't realise that then they are simply blanking out the 70s debacle when Britain stood on the brink.

The fact that it was a better place doesn't mean that all the problems hadn't gone away or that new ones weren't being hatched. But given where we stood in 1979? No contest.

 

[Scott_F]

MT made many mistakes, one of the greatest being to sell off many nationally owned businesses for a fraction of their apparent worth and most have florished in the private sector, proving if anyone had any doubts thats the public sector is incapable of managing winners let alone not for profit organisations...

You're already contradicting your own argument. If the private sector is able to buy something "for a fraction of their apparent worth" then they will obviously have more to invest in developing that business. Additionally, they are free to make decisions that are good for them but bad for the country (look at the Bombardier controversy or the massive job losses in privatised industries) that wouldn't be tolerated whilst in public ownership. Big profits for big business doesn't always equate to being good for the country.

The great thing she did was allow many "working class" people to buy their house from their local authority and thereby making the greatest contribution to a more equal society and a fairer distribution of wealth than anyone in my lifetime.

Owning your own home doesn't produce a more equal society - especially as it was done on the cheap (favourable prices and subsidised mortgages) at huge cost to the taxpayer. And many would argue that it has made society less equal as we have had a dearth of good-quality social housing as a result of right-to-buy. The best property was flogged off below its real value and was never replaced despite the sums raised. The almost complete lack of council house building over the past 25 years is a scandal.

You may think it was "a great thing" but it has condemned the last 2 generations who can only afford to rent to fight for the leftovers - the most undesirable properties in the most undesirable areas.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Stevieb and Dryce,
It is clear that you have both benefitted from signing up to Thatchers ideals. That's fair enough.
I, like I've stated earlier, wasn't around in the 70s so I can't respond to what it was really like during this time.

You say that Britain was a better place come the end of the 80s, but for who? You? That's very Thatcherite; 'I'm all right jack'.
Was the 'end of the 80s better for all those that she had made redundant? No, but that's all right, you can buy your council house if you want.
My opinion of that era is that she wanted everyone to be a business owner and an entrepreneur, which you two seem to be part of.
Most people though just want to do a forty hour week for a decent wage.

You snipe at the Blair/Brown legacy but that is yet to come. I think the real after effects of a government aren't felt fully for maybe 15 years, so their time is just starting.

 

[stevieb15]

Stevieb and Dryce,
It is clear that you have both benefitted from signing up to Thatchers ideals. That's fair enough.
I, like I've stated earlier, wasn't around in the 70s so I can't respond to what it was really like during this time.

You say that Britain was a better place come the end of the 80s, but for who? You? That's very Thatcherite; 'I'm all right jack'.
Was the 'end of the 80s better for all those that she had made redundant? No, but that's all right, you can buy your council house if you want.
My opinion of that era is that she wanted everyone to be a business owner and an entrepreneur, which you two seem to be part of.
Most people though just want to do a forty hour week for a decent wage.

You snipe at the Blair/Brown legacy but that is yet to come. I think the real after effects of a government aren't felt fully for maybe 15 years, so their time is just starting.

Just a very hard working individual, raised on what was the largest council estate in Bristol, not claimed a penny from the state in 38 years, paid in every month and heartily sick of living in a society where non contributors, takers and their apologists seem to think their interests should take precedence over everyone elses.
I won't bother to comment on your Blair/Brown nonsense, your own words condemn you

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I won't bother to comment on your Blair/Brown nonsense, your own words condemn you

You have mis-interpreted my Blair/Brown 'nonsense', I didn't say it would be a positive or a negative legacy, did I? I just said legacy.

I simply think that whatever that 'legacy' may be, we are going to find out over the coming years.

I don't expect to get much joy with my views on this forum, it's a Mercedes forum after all. Maybe I'm being naive in thinking that people, in general, want to help each other. You are quite clearly from the 'survival of the fittest' and screw everyone else which it comes across as though you are dis-heartened with mankind. Im not there yet, maybe one day I will be, maybe I won't.

 

[Meldrew2]

To try and lighten the mood a little...........

 

[Dryce]

Stevieb and Dryce,
It is clear that you have both benefitted from signing up to Thatchers ideals. That's fair enough.

I find that offensive.

Why? I don't sign up to government for personal benefit but for what I consider to be the common good. My personal gains/losses don't factor.

I, like I've stated earlier, wasn't around in the 70s so I can't respond to what it was really like during this time.

You say that Britain was a better place come the end of the 80s, but for who? You? That's very Thatcherite; 'I'm all right jack'.
Was the 'end of the 80s better for all those that she had made redundant? No, but that's all right, you can buy your council house if you want.
My opinion of that era is that she wanted everyone to be a business owner and an entrepreneur, which you two seem to be part of.
Most people though just want to do a forty hour week for a decent wage.

As you say - you weren't about in the 70s.

Things rarely happen in isolation. And what happened in the period 1980 to 1985 in particular was very much a legacy of the previous decade.

You snipe at the Blair/Brown legacy but that is yet to come. I think the real after effects of a government aren't felt fully for maybe 15 years, so their time is just starting.

I've stated before quite uncategorically that I think Brown ruined this country *for a generation*.

That's not sniping. And I'm quite happy to list the mistakes I know of. And they are many.

 

[stevieb15]

You have mis-interpreted my Blair/Brown 'nonsense', I didn't say it would be a positive or a negative legacy, did I? I just said legacy.

I simply think that whatever that 'legacy' may be, we are going to find out over the coming years.

I don't expect to get much joy with my views on this forum, it's a Mercedes forum after all. Maybe I'm being naive in thinking that people, in general, want to help each other. You are quite clearly from the 'survival of the fittest' and screw everyone else which it comes across as though you are dis-heartened with mankind. Im not there yet, maybe one day I will be, maybe I won't.

I'm disheartened with those who won't help themselves but rely upon everyone else to make up for their lack of input.
Parasite is an accurate term and in the end parasites generally kill their host.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Dryce, my intention wasn't to offend you.

My intention was to give a reply to how your posting comes across to me, which seems anti-everything and pro-nothing.

Maybe I have perceived that incorrectly, but that is how you come across.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I'm disheartened with those who won't help themselves but rely upon everyone else to make up for their lack of input.
.

To an extent you are preaching to the converted with that statement. I've come from nothing (I grew up on a council estate called 'Devils Island') to be doing reasonably well for myself through my own gumption.

Maybe in time I'll become as cynical as you towards other people, although I hope not. And I don't mean that in a funny way.