Buying a W211 E500 - Guidance

[milbo1990]

Hi,

I'm a lapsed member, returning to MB after a 4 year break...my last was a W124 but I'm now on the hunt for an E500 up to around £7k, which seems to be plenty for a saloon.

I'm aware of a vario radiator issues with early models (the sort I'm looking at), but how do I check if the car has a vario radiator? And how much should I budget to replace it with the updated radiator?

Is there anything else I should be looking for/wary of with one of these? Apart from checking that ALL the toys work!

Ideally looking for one with the Pulse seats and Pano roof.

 

[John]

The duff radiator in question is Valeo although I am not sure how to check - I imagine the manufacturer must be stamped on it.

The vintage you are looking at - you want to ensure SBC and Airmatic are OK (I am not sure if Airmatic was standard or an option of the E500).

You will definitely have SBC.

So listen out for any noisy pump sounds when unlocking the car and even starting / during running.

Ensure the 'raise car' and Comfort / Sport I / Sport II can be switched between should it have Airmatic, and that it isn't sunk on one or more corners.

I'd go for a 2006 onwards personally, if your budget reaches or can stretch.

Then you avoid SBC.

 

[milbo1990]

Thanks. Am I correct that the post-2006 model has no SBC and instead does the same function via the ECU? If so, is there an upgrade?

Could you explain how I run through the various suspension modes and through the full range of height?

I'm thinking it might be worth getting a specialist to inspect, once I've found a car I think is ok and before I put any money on the table!

 

[AMGeed]

Not 100% sure, but didn't the Valeo radiator problem disappear after the 2003/4 model ?
Whatever, a budget of £7k should get a nice 2005/2006 model. As John says, the 2006 model removes the SBC problem and there are quite a few revisions with this update.

 

[tali]

AirMATIC standard

 

[cp3377]

Thanks. Am I correct that the post-2006 model has no SBC and instead does the same function via the ECU? If so, is there an upgrade? Could you explain how I run through the various suspension modes and through the full range of height? I'm thinking it might be worth getting a specialist to inspect, once I've found a car I think is ok and before I put any money on the table!

I was told that the valeo radiator wasn't fitted to E500's by a dealer - I'm sure someone here can confirm whether that's true or not. To test the air suspension turn the engine on and press the suspension controls near the gear lever. There's the big button that switches from comfort to sport 1 to sport 2. You can watch the car lower itself when you select either of the latter two. To raise the suspension you press the button to the side of this, and again you can stand and watch&win it do its stuff. The car should sit at a standard height. Early versions would try to stay level even when they were locked but not facelift ones (I had one of each) from what I can recall. If the car doesn't do this effortlessly probably best to walk away.

Buy the latest you can afford - if you can get a facelift then you won't have to worry about SBC, and the engine is just stunning, not that the pre-facelift 5-litre is shabby in any way... Good luck!

 

[John]

Be aware though that the changes in suspension height are slow and subtle - it's not an old American car on hydraulics!

Raising the car will give a noticeable uplift in ride height which you can see by looking at the wheels outside. It should have no issues doing that as said.

Cycling through Comfort / Sport I and Sport II will either need you to look at the end of the bonnet in relation to something outside the car or get the seller to cycle it through (and then the raise) and watch it. Allow at least 30 seconds before changing although it should be done within that time.

 

[milbo1990]

I was thinking of going to look at this one; it's below budget, but it's got everything I want and there aren't many in the market to choose from!

Are there any solutions to the Valeo and SBC issues?

Mercedes-Benz E Class 5.0 E500 Avantgarde 4dr

 

[AMGeed]

The only solution to the Valeo issue is to confirm whether the car has one, and if it has, change it for a Behr radiator. A replacement radiator for my Eclass is around £200

As for SBC, if you want this model, be prepared to put by money to cover the possible failure of the pump at some stage. These pumps were programmed to issue warnings when the number of brake pedal presses approached 300k. In some cases it's possible to have the pump reset, but that is another issue.

 

[John]

You can also solve the SBC issue by buying post 2006!

Mercedes-Benz E Class 5.0 E500 Avantgarde 4dr

This one looks overpriced to me.

"BMW M5 has 40nm more torque but weighs 200kg more than the E500, so power to weight on this is similar"

I guess you aren't looking for devastating performance but trying to compare it with an M5 is ridiculous. The M5 is a completely different car and not only will it pull away from you on the straights, it will leave you on the twisties as well.

The figures are wrong as well...

M5 = 1795KG and 400BHP = 222BHP per ton
E500 = 1725KG and 306BHP = 177BHP per ton

 

[mannikon]

On a positive note, if the Airmatic and SBC are OK, you will appreciate them both, plus that car has a glass pano roof, it has four zone climate control, driver AND passenger memory seats and the through loading feature.
Mileage is low for 2002.
If it checks out and has good history I would have thought it worth putting in an offer.
As for the Valeo rad issue, my 2003 W211 has a Valeo and my indie (PCS) advised not to worry 'cause if it was going to fail it would have done so already.
I know you can't simply go by mileage alone but Id be surprised if the SBC pump is anywhere near its maximum count.

 

[b1g1an]

You can also solve the SBC issue by buying post 2006!



This one looks overpriced to me.

"BMW M5 has 40nm more torque but weighs 200kg more than the E500, so power to weight on this is similar"

I guess you aren't looking for devastating performance but trying to compare it with an M5 is ridiculous. The M5 is a completely different car and not only will it pull away from you on the straights, it will leave you on the twisties as well.

The figures are wrong as well...

M5 = 1795KG and 400BHP = 222BHP per ton
E500 = 1725KG and 306BHP = 177BHP per ton

The comparison probably relates to the later 5.5l 500s which have 380 odd bhp.

Quite right they are very different cars though, in fact the AMGs are still much softer edged than any M car but have the extra power to whoop them on the straights.

 

[milbo1990]

Thanks for your input everyone. It's not the M5 comparison which is attracting me to that car - if I wanted an M5, I'd have one, but I want something more wafty - it's the spec which is attracting me.

I've searched for some more info on the SBC issue and can't really find much of use. Is it just a case that it needs replacing every 300k brake-counts? Is there no way of removing or bypassing the SBC? How much should I keep in the war-chest for this eventuality?

I suppose I could expect the same problem with an E55 of the same vintage?

 

[John]

Quite right they are very different cars though, in fact the AMGs are still much softer edged than any M car but have the extra power to whoop them on the straights.

OK, I know mine isn't standard so not really fair but I easily nailed an E39 M5's ass to the wall before Christmas. I could tell from the smoke prior to gearchange that he was trying really hard as well...

He then had to slow right down as he exited on the slip road to see what that 10 year old E320CDI really was (it was dark).

To be fair, the E55's natural opponent is probably the E60 M5 V10.

The E39 M5s natural opponent is really the W210 E55.

I've searched for some more info on the SBC issue and can't really find much of use. Is it just a case that it needs replacing every 300k brake-counts? Is there no way of removing or bypassing the SBC? How much should I keep in the war-chest for this eventuality?

I suppose I could expect the same problem with an E55 of the same vintage?

The counter can be reset - I think Olly at PCS can do it.

This would be in lieu of simply replacing it at 300k as long as the pump is working as it should.

Otherwise yes, I think it is around 800 notes all in from an inde and 1600 notes from a main dealer.

You would have the same issues on the E55 as above.

Personally, I would go for an E55 as you are effectively running one with an E500 - but with nothing like the same oomph.

Then you can nail that E39 M5's ass to the wall too - and simply waft around in comfort at 30mph 2 minutes later.

Great cars.

 

[gunning]

Got to agree with John, might aswell go for an e55k all round a far superior car and still has the wafting ability. It's going to be my next car that's for certain.

 

[E270 Owner]

No command or rear blind .............. might be worth looking for a full spec one for that money.

 

[C240Sport97]

No command or rear blind .............. might be worth looking for a full spec one for that money.

why is rear blind important .. it's not that sunny in the UK

 

[E55BOF]

"my 2003 W211 has a Valeo and my indie (PCS) advised not to worry 'cause if it was going to fail it would have done so already."

I was given the same advice by another member when I bought my 2003 E55K estate, with 134K miles on it, but it's good to know that PCS agrees. Mine had the SBC unit replaced at some point - the Bosch serial number on it shows that it was manufactured in 2008.

Yes, it wafts very well, if you're gentle with the right foot, but when you really put your foot down, the power delivery is ludicrously, intimidatingly immediate, and even today, eleven years after its launch, a bog-standard E55K is not significantly slower (in a straight line, at least) than anything, of any age, except for the exotica, the seriously pricey, and the modified; it must have been an absolute sensation when first launched. It's a very comfortable, refined, five/seven-seat family estate with the performance of a seriously fast sports car for the price of a five-year-old Ford Focus. Bonkers; absolutely bonkers. I love it....

 

[milbo1990]

I know I'm veering off topic here, but what about the S500 of a similar vintage?

The position I'm in (changing jobs and losing a company car); I need to get something within the next few weeks; so I need a backup plan in case the right E500 doesn't turn up.

Also considering a 745, but I know that's not really for here!!

 

[milbo1990]

Oh, forgot to add; checked insurance on an E55 and it's a no-go :-(