Buying advice - the battle of the flawed engines 2000s M5 vs E63

[MrRight]

Auto Trader logo there are a few of these Jags around , some cheaper by a couple of k with not too dissimilar mileage. I'll add these to the list I think

 

[rockits]

Wise move....love my Jag

 

[MrRight]

Wise move....love my Jag

I'll be looking at it after the E63. I'd like to add a quattroporte to the list. There is one proper 4.7 I've found that isnt miles off price wise. All input has been greatly valued thus far. Thank you all. I'm not fussed about the v10 on the m5 and while it may be more precise and faster, comfort trumps performance for me on this car choice

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I’ve owned an XFR, two E55K’s, an S211 E63 and a QP.

Maserati
Positive: The QP is the most beautiful 4 door saloon ever made with a soundtrack to die for that turns heads wherever it goes. 6 speed ZF the box I’d go for.

Negative: Build quality very good but “expensive” to maintain. Boot can barely fit a postage stamp in. Steering noticeably heavy.

Economy: 13mpg local, low 20’s on a run.

E55K & E63
Positive: The W211 AMGs were great cars, the E55K engine is a masterpiece and will always be my first love and I’d happily own one again. The ‘63 has a dark brutal soundtrack that’s hard to beat.

Negative: Cost me (pro rata) more to own than the QP in maintenance and repairs.

Economy: 15-18mpg local, 25mpg on a run.

XFR
Positive: The XFR is head and shoulders above all those above, from the sublime 6 speed ZF box to the relentless 5.0 V8 Supercharged 510bhp engine that growls to the E-Diff that switches between open and limited slip diff (the other car maker that uses the same is Ferrari), not forgetting the magic carpet ride when in normal mode and the stiffness in Dynamic mode. Cost me zero in repairs outside of the big service I had done at Jag for £300.

Negative: build quality better than previous Jags but not as good as the others - although it doesn’t detract from the overall package imo. Boot is freakishly small compared to W211.

Economy: 18/20 mpg local, late 20’s/30mpg on a run.

 

[moodi]

Agree with some of above but I have to say the MC Shift / F1 gearbox is the only one I would ever touch mated to a 4.7 in the Maserati. The aural soundtrack on downshifts (something you don't get on the slush box) is simply sublime. Coupled with an X pipe - one of the best sounding things on the road, only beaten by exotica 5x the price.

 

[rockits]

I'd agree with much of these opinions. The QP and most Maserati noises in general are really tough to beat. Although my stock V8 Vantage with valves open is very very good! Slightly dirtier noise!!

The E55K drivetrain is very very good and a great all-round car. Feels a bit heavier and a little less sharp compared to the Jag and QP. The steering on all is far from perfect IMHO but none are sports cars. The Vantage is leagues above in the steering department and very hard to beat.

I'd also agree the Jag 5.0 SC V8 XFR or XJR/SuperSports are fantastic. Great cruisers and immensely comfortable. The XJL has a huge boot and rear passenger space. However they almost feel to good to me and lacking a little feel and soul. Very very capable but they don't feel alive like some actually lesser more compromised cars do. The QP and Vantage you connect with, feel and have a relationship with. It is hard to describe.

There is no bad car here as they are all chuffin good. Just maybe personal preferences and different car for different people/jobs/driving.

One thing is for sure......they knock all this new EV stuff into a cocked tin hat. Drove a Model 3 Performance the other week.....immensely impressive and very very good. Do I desire one? Not really. Would I have one? Possibly but only to do a job as a daily. I wouldn't pick the keys up and go for a drive for fun in one. For me that is most of my driving....for enjoyment.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Agree with some of above but I have to say the MC Shift / F1 gearbox is the only one I would ever touch mated to a 4.7 in the Maserati. The aural soundtrack on downshifts (something you don't get on the slush box) is simply sublime. Coupled with an X pipe - one of the best sounding things on the road, only beaten by exotica 5x the price.

The MC was never fitted to the QP 4.7.

 

[MrRight]

I'd agree with much of these opinions. The QP and most Maserati noises in general are really tough to beat. Although my stock V8 Vantage with valves open is very very good! Slightly dirtier noise!!

The E55K drivetrain is very very good and a great all-round car. Feels a bit heavier and a little less sharp compared to the Jag and QP. The steering on all is far from perfect IMHO but none are sports cars. The Vantage is leagues above in the steering department and very hard to beat.

I'd also agree the Jag 5.0 SC V8 XFR or XJR/SuperSports are fantastic. Great cruisers and immensely comfortable. The XJL has a huge boot and rear passenger space. However they almost feel to good to me and lacking a little feel and soul. Very very capable but they don't feel alive like some actually lesser more compromised cars do. The QP and Vantage you connect with, feel and have a relationship with. It is hard to describe.

There is no bad car here as they are all chuffin good. Just maybe personal preferences and different car for different people/jobs/driving.

One thing is for sure......they knock all this new EV stuff into a cocked tin hat. Drove a Model 3 Performance the other week.....immensely impressive and very very good. Do I desire one? Not really. Would I have one? Possibly but only to do a job as a daily. I wouldn't pick the keys up and go for a drive for fun in one. For me that is most of my driving....for enjoyment.

That is an excellent assessment , head says newer XFR.

Test drives to follow. I woidkn

I’ve owned an XFR, two E55K’s, an S211 E63 and a QP.

Maserati
Positive: The QP is the most beautiful 4 door saloon ever made with a soundtrack to die for that turns heads wherever it goes. 6 speed ZF the box I’d go for.

Negative: Build quality very good but “expensive” to maintain. Boot can barely fit a postage stamp in. Steering noticeably heavy.

Economy: 13mpg local, low 20’s on a run.

E55K & E63
Positive: The W211 AMGs were great cars, the E55K engine is a masterpiece and will always be my first love and I’d happily own one again. The ‘63 has a dark brutal soundtrack that’s hard to beat.

Negative: Cost me (pro rata) more to own than the QP in maintenance and repairs.

Economy: 15-18mpg local, 25mpg on a run.

XFR
Positive: The XFR is head and shoulders above all those above, from the sublime 6 speed ZF box to the relentless 5.0 V8 Supercharged 510bhp engine that growls to the E-Diff that switches between open and limited slip diff (the other car maker that uses the same is Ferrari), not forgetting the magic carpet ride when in normal mode and the stiffness in Dynamic mode. Cost me zero in repairs outside of the big service I had done at Jag for £300.

Negative: build quality better than previous Jags but not as good as the others - although it doesn’t detract from the overall package imo. Boot is freakishly small compared to W211.

Economy: 18/20 mpg local, late 20’s/30mpg on a run.

I couldn't hope for a better comparison. The M5 may be far more interesting to drive than the Jag for example but i would wager the jag has a velvet smooth ride. Even with the M3 , I hardly get many opportunities to push it meaning its performance is wasted 80 percent of the time I'm in it. Also I've outgrown it from a maturity perspective and I feel the M5 will be the same story.

The e63 might be the one with the magical sound track but I'm on the fence , so that leaves Maserati which is too long to park in my commuter parking spot unless I get one with a reversing camera. If im willing to consider Maserati then I'll also want to bring a CLS into the mix. The Jag ticks many boxes but lacks the brand points that the others have and may lack the emotional connection that some of the others might. The arbiters I think should be the value for money or the street cred.

As you already have a c63 I really think something like this is a brilliant daily, with so much real world torque it would match the M cars in real world performance. And give you up to 60MPG. And much more modern interior and mod con level:
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:


Auto Trader logo

Obviously you can get the saloon too. For 10-15k you’re looking at a low mileage 535d f10 with FBMWSH.

Great choice and tempting too! Only issue is before the M3, I briefly had a 330 and it simply didnt have enough grunt for me and neither does the M3. Fair enough the M3 has the perfect amount of usable power , however, I'm after something with even more power , maybe 400hp is enough. There are options in that bracket too to explore but if not, a car like the one you shared the link for is an excellent choice !

 

[MrRight]

crunch decision day ... seen the merc twice. seen the jag xfr too.

thoughts
Merc:
+ the ride quality is superior to the Jag with the air suspension being incredible. I prefer how solid and old school it feels.
+ the exterior looks of the car are stunning. it is debadged but those AMG exhaust pipes and spoiler are stunning. a real bonnet 3 pointed star is what it is all about.
+massaging seats
+ it is shorter and less bulky than the Jag
+ 6k less miles
+6.2 litre engine
- no reversing camera (does have front and rear parking sensors )
- no LSD
- only a 3star warranty covering 2k of costs is possible.
- rubbish tyres in the rear conti sport 3 and MP4 in front.
- terrible cruise control and indicator stalk positioning


Jag:
+ Reversing camera and blind spot assist
+ definitely more modern and wife prefers the looks
+ better sound system Wilkins & Bowen
+ sunroof
- LSD
- rubbish tyres in the rear though brand new , dunlop sport Maxx in the front.
- technically unlimited warranty for 1 year and 1 year of MOT but I dont care much about that.

I'm so on the fence. heart says AMG but wife prefers the Jag.

I have an hour to decide or abandon ship. the BMW M car is a road legal go kart and far more fun than the other two cars for the DRIVER. but passengers on the other hand ... wife wont sit in the car by choice, ever ...

 

[AMGeed]

If you prefer the AMG, go for it. It's you that will be driving it.
Just make sure you have a decent Xmas present for the missus or you are in for some cold shoulder

 

[Skd884]

No brainer, Amg.

 

[Neiltodd]

AMG

 

[MrRight]

If you prefer the AMG, go for it. It's you that will be driving it.
Just make sure you have a decent Xmas present for the missus or you are in for some cold shoulder

I'm genuinely on the fence, each car has its merits. both are in fantastic condition. the jag is clearly a newer , more modern car and its styling is very much up to date. The merc, well, it is built like a Sherman tank. it is solid and old school and is an AMG. I'm probably going AMG... will post pics of the winner later !

 

[John]

I would go AMG.

I do like the Jags but at the end of the day, if this is going to be a heart car and your car, and your heart is not in the Jag, you will only regret it once the new car novelty has worn off.

I tried to get myself into Lexus and Jaguar previously but Lexus leave me cold and the Jaguar had annoying (for me) side bolsters on the front seats which dig into my not insubstantial thighs. Otherwise it was great although was never a heart car either!

I consider tyres as one of many factors. I personally don't read too much into them though as you can replace these at some stage with what you want. I know some view it as an indicator of how the car is looked after but I bought my W211 E55 with ditchfinders on it, and they were quite new so it seemed they saved a few quid putting on a cheaper but newer tyre rather than leave illegal and / or knackered tyres. As it turns out, the car was incredibly reliable and well-cared for.

I've not heard the Bowers and Wilkins sound system in the Jags but the later Meridian was very good for an OEM system. However, I'd rather buy the car I prefer and upgrade (and I did exactly this!).

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Jag:
+ Reversing camera and blind spot assist
+ definitely more modern and wife prefers the looks
+ better sound system Wilkins & Bowen
+ sunroof
- LSD

^^^ why is that a minus? As I explained earlier, the XFR uses an electronic diff that switches between open and limited slip diff which gives you the best of both worlds.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Mind you, having seen the time you posted - I assume you’ve already made the decision!

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I do like the Jags but at the end of the day, if this is going to be a heart car and your car, and your heart is not in the Jag, you will only regret it once the new car novelty has worn off.

This ^^

As much as I’d take an XFR over the E63, the heart wants what the heart wants (although having said that, the wife can sometimes help me when I come to a crossroads with cars..)

I've not heard the Bowers and Wilkins sound system in the Jags

It’s absolutely top notch John, bettered only by the same system in the RR & RRS.

 

[MrRight]

^^^ why is that a minus? As I explained earlier, the XFR uses an electronic diff that switches between open and limited slip diff which gives you the best of both worlds.

sorry that was a plus!!! lol

 

[Deleted member 37751]

sorry that was a plus!!! lol

Have you bought owt then or what?!

 

[MrRight]

Have you bought owt then or what?!

sadly it just failed its MOT due to an issue with the bixenon bulb lol. the vendor has to replace it and then I'll be able to collect the AMG in early January...deposit paid ... for the first time I have ever bought a car based purely on ride comfort lol