C&SC test - GTV6 vs XJS vs 653CSi

[Scott_F]

Ah... that eighties' ugly duckling?

Oh I don't know, I've seen worse.....

It's just a shame that some owners can't resist their compulsion to start drilling holes in the bonnet and fitting a mascot that doesn't belong there and which looks wrong.

 

[Darrell]

Oh I don't know, I've seen worse.....

It's just a shame that some owners can't resist their compulsion to start drilling holes in the bonnet and fitting a mascot that doesn't belong there and which looks wrong.

The cabrios are stunning cars, especially in V12 form.

 

[Doodle]

Sad. I actually liked the look of them. Lombarda on Ladbroke Grove always had a few with those wheels with the polished rims (kind of like 5 spoke Revolutions).

They would have been Revo's RFX model. I believe they were standard fitment to the 75 Veloce.

KWE are just around the corner from home, so there's always plenty of pretty Jags to gawp at

 

[Darrell]

Sad. I actually liked the look of them. Lombarda on Ladbroke Grove always had a few with those wheels with the polished rims (kind of like 5 spoke Revolutions).

The old crook from Lombarda!!!

My business partner looked at a 75 back in about 1995. The price was faaaar too high so the answer was a big no no. After zillions of phone calls the price was almost half the original sale price!!

He bought an H plate 325i in the end.

 

[Londonscottish]

....and here's 16:30 minutes of an Italian singing its praise in a way that only Italians can:

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Mark, thanks for posting that. What a great vid! So much to watch but i loved the fact that the last minute is just pure engine noise. Really really really took me back.

One thing though; that bloody gear linkage. One of the worst car I EVER drove was a mate's 1972 Beetle. A truly awful car in almost every aspect possible. Except the gear change. Some how the engineers that made the Beetle figured that detail out but the Alfetta team never managed to do so.

Never mind; the GTV6 will always bring back some fantastc memories for me.

 

[Londonscottish]

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[markjay]

Mark, thanks for posting that. What a great vid! So much to watch but i loved the fact that the last minute is just pure engine noise. Really really really took me back.

One thing though; that bloody gear linkage. One of the worst car I EVER drove was a mate's 1972 Beetle. A truly awful car in almost every aspect possible. Except the gear change. Some how the engineers that made the Beetle figured that detail out but the Alfetta team never managed to do so.

Never mind; the GTV6 will always bring back some fantastc memories for me.

The Alfetta had the gearbox together with the rear diff assembly. This aided the front-rear weight distribution. The consequences however were (a) extremely long gear linkage making for some vague gearshifts, and (b) a prop shaft rotating at the engine rpm (6000+.....) and regulatory shattering the rubber couplings.

The same rear assembly also included the hydraulic clutch (master-slave cylinder setup similar to the brakes), and the two rear discs which were not on the wheel hubs but on either side of the diff (reducing 'unsprung weight').

Yes this was some design.....

 

[markjay]

I forgot to mention the rear de-dion axle.....

 

[markjay]

Note the clutch, gearbox, rear diff, and discs, all in one assembly.

 

[alabbasi]

I'm interested in reading this article if someone is interested in scanning it. I don't have not never driven a GTV6, I do currently own a 1994 XJS V12 Convertible and an 85 BMW M6. They are two completely different cars. The Jaguar is a silky smooth grand tourer that's an effortless drive. The BMW is probably one of the most engaging cars to own, but you feel tired after driving it for a while. They could not be more different.

 

[Londonscottish]

The Alfetta had the gearbox together with the rear diff assembly. This aided the front-rear weight distribution. The consequences however were (a) extremely long gear linkage making for some vague gearshifts, and (b) a prop shaft rotating at the engine rpm (6000+.....) and regulatory shattering the rubber couplings.

The same rear assembly also included the hydraulic clutch (master-slave cylinder setup similar to the brakes), and the two rear discs which were not on the wheel hubs but on either side of the diff (reducing 'unsprung weight').

Yes this was some design.....

....and yet Porche made it work (by "it" I mean transaxle) in the 924, 944, 968 etc. A mate of mine has a 968 track car which he prefers to his 964 RS in that environment simple becuse it carries so much speed through the corners. No one ever grumbled abut the gearchange in one of thhe.

Re the spinning propshaft - it did act a bit like a giant flywheel. I do remember the revs dropping off very slowly.

The inboard discs were a badge of sophistication at the time. Sud's had them at the front. Rover P6's at the rear.

 

[D-18]

It's just a shame that some owners can't resist their compulsion to start drilling holes in the bonnet and fitting a mascot that doesn't belong there and which looks wrong.

Completely agree with that comment - the 'Leaper' looks good on older cars like the Mk2 et al, but is totally out of place on modern Jaguars - including the XJS.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I had a look at that article earlier in the week. Truth said, I didn't understand why anyone thought to compare them.

The GTV6 was just one of those cars that I wanted but didn't quite need at the time. But it way sportier, lithe and fun than the other two.

The XJS has always been about 20 years too older than my needs. Too British, too 2-seater XJ6.

I had a manual M635 and hated it for central London use. Too big and heavy - more an Autobahn thing.

 

[Darrell]

I had a look at that article earlier in the week. Truth said, I didn't understand why anyone thought to compare them.

The GTV6 was just one of those cars that I wanted but didn't quite need at the time. But it way sportier, lithe and fun than the other two.

The XJS has always been about 20 years too older than my needs. Too British, too 2-seater XJ6.

I had a manual M635 and hated it for central London use. Too big and heavy - more an Autobahn thing.

I too thought it was a strange comparison. The Jag and BMW, yes but although the GTV is a wonderful car I wouldn’t put it in the same category as the other 2.
I’m seeing a couple of my mates on Friday night so the conversation should be good.

Whilst we are on the subject of Alfa’s did any of the London based Alfa fans here attend the London section of the AROC meetings in a pub (The Harcourt Arms) near Baker St stn back in the late 90’s-early naughties?

 

[Londonscottish]

I too thought it was a strange comparison. The Jag and BMW, yes but although the GTV is a wonderful car I wouldn’t put it in the same category as the other 2.
I’m seeing a couple of my mates on Friday night so the conversation should be good.

Whilst we are on the subject of Alfa’s did any of the London based Alfa fans here attend the London section of the AROC meetings in a pub (The Harcourt Arms) near Baker St stn back in the late 90’s-early naughties?

No I never did. In fact I never managed to join the AROC at all. In the days before the internet it involved having a stamp, an envelope, a letter, a cheque and the name and the address of the membership secretary all in the same place all at the same time. I came close on a few occasions but, ultimately, failed.

I did used to love popping into Lombarda for some parts and even more so Ramponi. In the summer I could hang around Ramponi for hours with jazz music wafting in the background and people rocking up in all sorts of 60's 70's, 80's and contemporary Alfa's. Reminded me of Fisher's in Edinburgh.

Less glamorous but still handy was Alfaman out in Park Royal where I'd get my seconhand parts.

When I had to work of Maidenhead in my first year in the smoke I used to go to SGT in Taplow but they were obnoxious and I was glad to able to turn my back on them.

 

[Yugguy]

I love the XJ-S. Propert point and squirt, squat-down and off we go.

Had a 156 v6 too, lovely sound. No problems with it either.

 

[Darrell]

Spoke with one of my Alfa & Lancia lovers today. He tells me he is looking at a 164 Q4
Uber rare.

 

[Scott_F]

Spoke with one of my Alfa & Lancia lovers today. He tells me he is looking at a 164 Q4
Uber rare.

Do you have many Alfa and Lancia lovers in your life ??

 

[Darrell]

Do you have many Alfa and Lancia lovers in your life ??

Some.

 

[alabbasi]

I had a manual M635 and hated it for central London use. Too big and heavy - more an Autobahn thing.

It's amazing that different people have different perspectives on the same thing. I have an M635CSI and a 94 XJS V12 Convertible. The XJS is just a silky smooth cruiser that's designed to be effortless. I was not a huge fan of them when they were new but they're really started to grow on me about 7-8 years ago. The build quality is definitely better than the 6 series.

The M6 is probably the most engaging car that I own. I feel more in touch with the car and the road than I do in any of my other cars, some with more than twice the power. After a long drive, you do somewhat feel exhausted.