C220 CDI AMG Sports 2009 model

[kwakdonut]

This is like deja vu all over again with the thread on the other forum about lag in an E350CDi.

OK, mine is a 270 and it's a W203, but the 220 is just as powerful now so that shouldn't be an issue.

I know what lag is - I've driven Ford and Volvo diesel auto's that were just horrendous, but my MB had never given me a moment's cause for concern in "cut and thrust" motoring.

They are sluggish when stone cold - the autobox is programmed like this. I back mine off the drive, select D and then wonder if it's ever going to start going forwards. However after half a mile through the village I have to pull out from rest on to a fast main road and it's absolutely fine.

Time to change the ATF?!

 

[DonDon]

Assuming you bought it from an MB dealer, take it back, get them to do a diagnostics and test drive. Then try another same spec C220 and compare. Easy! No need to start talking legal with them. It could work out being time consuming and expensive for you. No doubt they'll ask if you test drove it first, which we all assume you did..............?

Yes I test drove the car for about 20 minutes, but I really didnt do any start stops, it was mainly running along the M25/M23 then back to the dealership. It wasn't until the following few days that I found it so sluggish, then I reported it to the Dealer, who withing 5 days took the car away for a whole day. The brakes were binding, they think it had been standing around a while, the brake pads have cross slots cut into them, they seem to have sorted that out, but the sluggishness remained, they failed to tell me what they had tested and what results they had found, so I am completely unaware of what was done, or should have been done. I just thought that with all the electronics, the computer would have either auto adjusted or signalled what actions were needed and they would have carried them out, am I being too naive!.

 

[DonDon]

OK, that's good - should be loose enough now. I would not be happy with what you have described.

Sounds like a possible faulty MAF sensor - I had that on my Bora, very noticeable at low revs and would suddenly pick up. MPG normal and no other problems.

If dealer won't sort, take it up with MB HQ @ Milton Keynes.

What exactly is an MAF Sensor?.
Sounds like you know a lot more than me about MB cars than I ever will.

I really would like to thank you and all the others who have participated in this post, the MB Dealership have just called me to say they wish to take the car back and retest it, so I need a list of possible items to be changed or at least tested, like the MAF Sensor, any more, you have all been a great help to me, please keep it up. Thanks a lot.

 

[kwakdonut]

Am sure some 220 owners can give you some insight. I drove a 220 Sport for a week and although not as nimble as my 270 at the time, was sprightly enough. I didn't experience any discernable lag which makes me think yours has a problem of some sort.
Maybe I'm wrong?! lol
Stick with it - don't let the stealers fob you off

 

[kwakdonut]

MAF Sensor is located between the air filter and turbo. It's a 'Mass Air Flow' sensor and as it's name implies, measures the amount of air entering the engine. Diesels basically work with the throttle wide open and the fuel is metered in according to demand. The MAF typically fails as it gets old and dirty although they have been known to fail prematurely.
I don't think its the MAF sensor that has gone but have given it as a suggestion as the symptoms you describe seem similar.
The dealer will need to test drive it themselves and hopefully get it on STAR too to see if the car has flagged any faults up.
Like I said before, see if you can get them to lend you a similar car as a comparator.

 

[st13phil]

Initial torque build up on the pre-BE W204 C220CDI's (especially when cold) is a little slower than I was used to with VW 130 / 150 PD TDI engines, but not so slow as to be a problem. The W204 C200K feels a lot more spritely off the line, but the diesel is as quick or marginally quicker once it's rolling.

In the cold conditions we've been having recently it takes a long while for everything to get properly warm - perhaps 15-20 miles / 20-30 minutes of running. How does the car perform once it's really up to temperature?

 

[Aoraki]

Have a look at this THREAD, it's regarding lag on W212 350's. I have a 350 which has this lag problem but I also had a MY07 W204 220cdi that didn't.
Some folks are saying it's turbo lag, some say it's the engine mapping, I'm not sure but I think it's how the signals are used from the fly by wire throttle which is why some folks think a Sprint Booster may help.
PS a 220 is 170hp

 

[DonDon]

C220 sluggish at pulling away

Thanks a lot to you all for your helpful comments.
The MB Dealers have agreed to retest my car next Tuesday and are giving me an identical car for 24 hours to test drive, so after that I should have a much better understanding of the pick up problems.
They did STAR test it, 2 weeks ago, and say they found nothing, but they are doing it all again, so fingers crossed, I hope they find the answer, otherwise I will have to try the Sprintbooster.
Will let you know how I get on

 

[mykulmerc]

Mercedes never made a C180K back in 1999 , so its the N/A 12x BHP model you have which does 0-60 in 13.3 seconds. The 180k engine would feel faster than youre 1999 C220CDI with 123bhp which must have been one of the first in that W202 shape.

Thanks for that- it isn't badged. What is "N/A 12x"? Is it a non-kompressor 180?

I previously owned a 1994 C220 petrol which was much better.


Diesels give 100% of their power from cold as petrols don't. Thus the diesel should be quick even when cold if pushed.


Not sure I agree. I don't like pushing a cold engine harder than necessary, but mine certainly seems to wake up once its got a bit of warmth into it.

I believe some WWII Tanks had supercharged diesel engines in them as did the Mazda RF Series Diesel engine sported a supercharged diesel engine using a pressure wave supercharger.

Thanks for that- it isn't badged. What is "N/A 12x"? Is it a non-kompressor 180?

I previously owned a 1994 C220 petrol which was much better.


Diesels give 100% of their power from cold as petrols don't. Thus the diesel should be quick even when cold if pushed.


Not sure I agree. I don't like pushing a cold engine harder than necessary, but mine certainly seems to wake up once its got a bit of warmth into it.

 

[renault12ts]

I have a 2000 320 CDI. No lag...if I'm beaten off the line its because I was asleep. This talk of lag is misleading. Modern high pressure turbo diesels should not be sluggish off the line...my Indie likes my car, he says its one of the best he services. I deduce therefore that some are good, some not so....but lag? No!

 

[st13phil]

I have a 2000 320 CDI. No lag...if I'm beaten off the line its because I was asleep. This talk of lag is misleading. Modern high pressure turbo diesels should not be sluggish off the line.

Sorry to disagree, but there is such a thing as turbo lag. One of the issues that MB were addressing when they developed the new line of 4-pot twin (sequential) turbo engines was the relatively slow torque buildup on the previous single turbo units. Slow torque buildup = turbo lag.

I've run turbo diesel cars exclusively for the last 12 years and every single one exhibits turbo lag - some more, some less than others, but they all do it. Driving conditions have a significant effect too, e.g. when the oil is very cold the bigger turbo's are quite sluggish to spin up and the lag becomes quite pronounced.

 

[chiefski26]

sorry to disagree, but there is such a thing as turbo lag. One of the issues that mb were addressing when they developed the new line of 4-pot twin (sequential) turbo engines was the relatively slow torque buildup on the previous single turbo units. Slow torque buildup = turbo lag.

I've run turbo diesel cars exclusively for the last 12 years and every single one exhibits turbo lag - some more, some less than others, but they all do it. Driving conditions have a significant effect too, e.g. When the oil is very cold the bigger turbo's are quite sluggish to spin up and the lag becomes quite pronounced.

+1

 

[Rory]

Sorry to disagree, but there is such a thing as turbo lag. One of the issues that MB were addressing when they developed the new line of 4-pot twin (sequential) turbo engines was the relatively slow torque buildup on the previous single turbo units. Slow torque buildup = turbo lag.

I've run turbo diesel cars exclusively for the last 12 years and every single one exhibits turbo lag - some more, some less than others, but they all do it. Driving conditions have a significant effect too, e.g. when the oil is very cold the bigger turbo's are quite sluggish to spin up and the lag becomes quite pronounced.

That's all true, but I wouldn't have expected to get noticeable turbo lag off the line in an auto, and on the move the auto box should compensate for, or mask, it.

I'm sure all of us who have driven manual TD cars have been caught "off-boost" but I just don't see that happening to any noticeably detrimental extent in an auto MB.

 

[DonDon]

Come on experts, lag or no lag?

My C220 CDI AMG Sports car goes back to the MB Dealershipnext Tuesday, what do do if they say allis working perfectly and the car is still sluggish?, I was out this morning and whenever I had to start from Lights or a roundabout, there was the usual slight delay, I find it slightly disturbing, you get a feeling that the car isn't going to go, then it lunges forward, will see if the car they loan me is the same.

 

[st13phil]

That's all true, but I wouldn't have expected to get noticeable turbo lag off the line in an auto, and on the move the auto box should compensate for, or mask, it.

I agree that once on the move there's no really noticeable turbo lag on my W204 auto, but the response off the line from a standing start isn't as immediate as, say, a 200K petrol. I fancy that the whole engine management system is set up to give a fairly soft initial response on these cars to give the drivetrain an easier time. Certainly I found it much easier to get traction to pull away in the snow with my C220CDI than a colleague did with his C200K. Or maybe he's just got a less sensitive right foot than me

Depending upon what the OP is using as a benchmark I can see how he may think there's a bit of a delay when he hits the loud pedal from a standing start in his C220CDI. Initial take off is a bit on the leisurely side on these cars but I'd never describe it as "dangerous", and once you're used to the car I wouldn't even describe it as "disconcerting". Of course, it's quite possible that there's a fault with the OP's car which will hopefully get quickly resolved.

 

[DonDon]

C220 CDI has been checked out by MB Dealer-nothing wrong

So my car has been star tested etc and they say there is nothing they can change. They loaned me an identical C220 CDI 6,000 miles and it did exactly the same. Just hesitates when you give it some gass to get going, the hesitation is very slight, but it is noticeable, so what next??????
Does anyone recommend a "Sprintbooster" for £170, do they really work?, will I notice the difference?, or is it incorrect and this car will always suffer?.
Can someone please advise me?.

 

[HR17]

So my car has been star tested etc and they say there is nothing they can change. They loaned me an identical C220 CDI 6,000 miles and it did exactly the same. Just hesitates when you give it some gass to get going, the hesitation is very slight, but it is noticeable, so what next??????
Does anyone recommend a "Sprintbooster" for £170, do they really work?, will I notice the difference?, or is it incorrect and this car will always suffer?.
Can someone please advise me?.

That's just diesel automatics generally. They always feel different to petrols. Its a fact of life. You'll get used to it in time, and appreciate the relaxed extra torque you never had with petrols.

 

[DonDon]

So you are saying don't buy a sprintbooster and just put up with it?.
Anybody disagree?

 

[st4]

So you are saying don't buy a sprintbooster and just put up with it?.
Anybody disagree?

I'd just put up with it as you will get used to the car eventually. A sprint booster will make the car tricker to manouver as the pedal will become very sensative.

 

[HR17]

So you are saying don't buy a sprintbooster and just put up with it?.
Anybody disagree?

I wouldn't bother wasting your money. MB didn't waste millions developing a car that doesn't work. You'll get used to it soon and wont notice.