c350 cdi vs c350 cgi real world mpg????

[gIzzE]

True!!!
Shame it's torque is still over 100lb ft down compared with the diesel.
For road driving I'll keep to the diesel and enjoy that thrust

Still, your new petrol C350 can be upgraded to a Big Mac with tomato sauce

You do realise that torque is simply a figure that is multiplied with the rpm to get the figure that actually matters.....BHP??


Torque can be nice, it depends what you want from your car.
I am 40 now and I appreciate torque and low down grunt more than ever, I prefer the more relaxed nature of it compared with a few years ago.
But there is no denying that a higher rpm and more BHP is far more fun.

Take an E46 M3 CSL out, only 270ft lb of torque, and only actually 360bhp, but my god it pushes you into the back of your seat with every gear change when you keep it in the power band.

For those doing lots of motorway miles torque really helps, for those wanting exciting then it is all about revs and BHP.

 

[gIzzE]

Old school diesels were terrible-with nothing at bottom end, but newer ones apart from rattle at start up seem just as refined on motorway.Only 6cylinder diesel i sampled was a 02 reg BMW 530D - it sounded grunty and sweet -what diesel? i asked myself
For me it is more about cost issue where i would buy petrol instead -(okay it is from DM)
Great diesel myth: They DON'T save you money and petrol models 'are more economical for most makes of car' | Mail Online

I totally disagree.

My last 3 diesels have been...

E350cdi
E320cdi
535d

None of them come close to the refinement of the old E320 W210 I had, or the 3.2fsi V6 Audi A6, and that is not known as the most refined petrol out there.
After 10 years in Diesels, apart from M cars, going to the 335i and E320 was weird, on numerous occasions I thought it had stalled.
I can't describe it very well, but having absolutely zero judder from the engine compared to even the best diesels seemed very, very strange and took some getting used to.

I am not saying modern diesels are not plenty good enough refinement wise, but I don't think it is fair to say they are as refined as a petrol.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

You do realise that torque is simply a figure that is multiplied with the rpm to get the figure that actually matters.....BHP??

Ever heard the phrase 'horsepower sells cars, torque wins races'?

 

[gIzzE]

Ever heard the phrase 'horsepower sells cars, torque wins races'?

Yeah, I always come out with that crap when I have a diesel sat on the drive too.

 

[st4]

Power is a theoretical calculation made from engine speed and RPM.

More diesel driver clap trap. Most of the time you don't spend the time near the top of the powerband, so the lower down surge is more useful as the higher torque makes use of the lower engine speeds....

With me so far. And the latest diesels have plently of peak power, my ex E320cdi 221bhp, plenty and 368ft/lb torque. Rapid like. My new C class from Saturday (170bhp, plenty in a car that size to zip along nicely) and whilst the petrols have a higher peak power, they are not that far ahead of the diesels to say that the modern diesels are slow.

Combined with the ability to get to London on 1/2 tank from Glasgow and going 30-40% further on juice (diesels are driven slower as they aren't as much fun) they make a hell of a compelling case.

So I am on my 3rd oil burner.

 

[gIzzE]

I think you're missing my point.

They drive differently, the power delivery is different.

It is not actually a case of diesel vs petrol, it is Forced Induction vs Naturally Aspirated.

I think people get really defensive when we talk diesel vs petrol, when you discuss the same thing with NA vs FI you get a much more open minded debate for some reason.

Two very different ways of delivery the power and all a personal preference to what you prefer.


When we were discussing this on Pistonheads I posted up a comparison of my M3 CSL compared to the 335i.
Both 360bhp, both got to 60mph in 4.8 seconds every time, and both completely different from each other.
One was a complete maniac when you got it going, the other was just a very fast motorway mile muncher.

 

[gIzzE]

More diesel driver clap trap.

Always is.

Most of the time you don't spend the time near the top of the powerband, so the lower down surge is more useful as the higher torque makes use of the lower engine speeds....

Absolutely, you just hit the nail on the head.

But then you could argue that a van is more practical than a Caterham, for many they only do 10k miles a year and they want to have it as fun as possible while keeping it realistic cost wise.

If you had absolutely no money concerns at all, so Mercedes was buying you a car, insuring it, taxing it, paying for all upkeep and fuel, would you be take a C220cdi over a C63? Would you honestly have the c220cdi over a 306bhp C350?

I don't know, maybe you would?

I still believe that most of us buy diesels based soley on financial reasoning, if petrol was 70p per litre compared with diesel at £1.35 I honestly don't think the C350cdi would get a look in.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Whats the C63 then?

Chilli con carne made with Bhut Jolokia peppers!

 

[Deleted member 65149]

diesels are driven slower as they aren't as much fun

Thank you. I went for a drive yesterday just for the sake of going for a drive. Nowhere to go in particular, I just wanted to have some fun driving. I daren't say what the fuel consumption was, and to be honest I don't care. With winding roads, the Dynamic Handling switched on and alternating stretches of the Harmon Kardon blasting out rock or it turned down to listen to the stunning exhaust note on acceleration, my massive smile told me I'd made the right choice for me. Refined excitement in a black box.

 

[Dryce]

I am not saying modern diesels are not plenty good enough refinement wise, but I don't think it is fair to say they are as refined as a petrol.

I suspect that at speed while the refinement has been improved it's also being masked in part by tyre noise which has been getting worse as buyers choose vehicles with wider lower profile tyres.

 

[gr4z]

This is a great thread I keep coming back to

I have a 2011 C350CDI and while I love the torque and sheer speed of the thing I will be going back to a petrol when I change it next year. Like Gizze I cannot put it down into words, just having a petrol with a better sound track is more appealing than gaining 5MPG and a rattle.

 

[st4]

Thank you. I went for a drive yesterday just for the sake of going for a drive. Nowhere to go in particular, I just wanted to have some fun driving. I daren't say what the fuel consumption was, and to be honest I don't care. With winding roads, the Dynamic Handling switched on and alternating stretches of the Harmon Kardon blasting out rock or it turned down to listen to the stunning exhaust note on acceleration, my massive smile told me I'd made the right choice for me. Refined excitement in a black box.

I take my diesel cars for massive pleasure drives most weekends. I find the turbo charged oomph exciting, but not the sound they make.

I dare say if money no object I'd run a petrol car I'd admit. I was toying with a petrol equivalent this time but diesel won the day.

Because I'm tight.

 

[st13phil]

It is not actually a case of diesel vs petrol, it is Forced Induction vs Naturally Aspirated.

I agree to a large extent, but...

My wife used to have an R56 MINI Cooper S (the turbo version) which had what seems to be an increasingly typical FI petrol engined "flat top" torque curve, whereby the peak torque is reached at relatively low rpm and then is held constant at that level by the engine management system. The outright performance was pretty good, but somehow or another it just wasn't as engaging (to me) as either a NA petrol or an FI diesel engine to drive. Sort of "neither fish nor fowl".

In our household now, I have routine use of my 350CDI 265bhp W212 and my wife's 305bhp R171 SLK350 which deliver their performance in totally different ways - just as you'd expect - and for absolute performance the SLK unsurprisingly has the edge. Aurally, especially with the top down, the howl of the SLK at the top end of its rev range wins out too. But, and this is the important bit, for the ability to easily access the performance in normal driving on public roads (i.e. when not driving in licence losing fashion), the diesel engine has the petrol beaten by a country mile. Given almost any requirement to accelerate, the SLK is still scurrying down the gearbox to access its powerband while the E-Class has already stomped off into the distance. Add in the fact that the fuel cost per mile is around 50% higher for the smaller lighter SLK than the fat lardy E-Class, and the argument for the 3-litre FI diesel over the 3.5-litre NA petrol is quite compelling.

 

[mercmerc321]

Lol and the winner is???

 

[Dieselman]

For me it is more about cost issue where i would buy petrol instead -(okay it is from DM)
Great diesel myth: They DON'T save you money and petrol models 'are more economical for most makes of car' | Mail Online

That article conveniently ignores resale value, as usual.

 

[st4]

That article conveniently ignores resale value, as usual.

This is a red herring, with cars being financed on well, finance which defers a big lump of principle to the end, the resale value is a big red herring as often the owner has this predetermined and way well not be exposed to the real value.

For example, the monthly repayments and deposit may well be exactly the same for a C350CDi and for a C350CGi, I don't know, nor do I really care, but the actual value of the two cars may well differ greatly at the end of the term, but that has no bearing on the owners....

Converesly, a petrol model may well be more sought after for its rarity and command a premium due to this over a diesel.

The article also sites some very strange comparisons, a 528i or a 530d. Surely a a 528i driver won't look at a 530d, ones a peashooter 4pot turbo, the other a manly I6 engine.

The Fiesta 1.6TDCI vs 1.25 petrol was a bad one. The diesel is worth the premium, its way faster and more economical, its more fun.

A Sharan or Tiguan or whatever VW box they picked, a 1.4TSi will struggle with a big family car like that, a 2.0TDi will fly. The performance alone is worth the price hike.

They in short compared apples with oranges, and did not choose models that matched really on price or performance.

Fail.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

That article conveniently ignores resale value, as usual.

Is it really relevent? I've had a bit of a scour around on the internet looking at used car prices but can't see any significant difference in depreciation either way. Another myth perhaps?

 

[mercmerc321]

Lol wwhat one wins lol???

 

[Peter DLM]

Lol wwhat one wins lol???

Only you can decide that

 

[The _Don]

This is a great thread I keep coming back to

I have a 2011 C350CDI and while I love the torque and sheer speed of the thing I will be going back to a petrol when I change it next year. Like Gizze I cannot put it down into words, just having a petrol with a better sound track is more appealing than gaining 5MPG and a rattle.

Tremendous post DIEsel - horrid fuel.