C63 Cam Adjuster Noise

[Bobby Dazzler]

Don't take it personally. They seem to say "Go to the Ombudsman if you disagree" a lot now. Go for it and see what happens. I don't believe you'll get more from Mercedes otherwise.

 

[R77C]

Don't take it personally. They seem to say "Go to the Ombudsman if you disagree" a lot now. Go for it and see what happens. I don't believe you'll get more from Mercedes otherwise.

Agreed!!

 

[R77C]

All.

After weeks of hounding Mercedes across all hierarchical levels I have finally received a reply explaining that the engine noise is normal, and providing a technical summary as to why.

The ridiculous thing is that, if they knew this from the outset why was I not told in June when the car was first booked in? They (the Dealer driven by guidance from MB Technical in Milton Keynes) kept replacing bits in the engine over a period of 5 months, but if this is a "known" noise and deemed normal then why do all of this. It's pretty obvious that I'm being fobbed off but I don't really think there's much more I can do now.

Here is what they said, bearing in mind I have had all 4 camshaft adjusters replaced:

The noise you can hear is coming from the camshaft adjusters – your car has four of these, one on each of the camshafts. The noise can happen intermittently on this engine when the camshaft doesn’t lock into a set position when you turn the engine off. I’ve attached an exploded image of the adjuster below to give you a better idea of what I’m explaining.



When the lock bolt (figure 3/3 on the diagram) doesn’t locate into the plate (figure 3/7), then a rattle can be heard when the engine starts. The noise will be short lived, and once the oil pressure is built up inside the camshaft adjuster, it will stop.

This might not be present on every model with this engine fitted, but the tolerances in these engines, and the parts fitted to them does vary. Some cars will have a more noticeable noise, or have it more frequently, than others.


My initial question surrounds the locking of the camshaft in a set position comment...given that mine will make the noise when restarted warm every time without fail, does that suggest that my camshaft isn't locking properly? Should it lock? I've gone back to ask for clarity but they are simply ignoring me now.....

Any comments would be welcomed from those who might have more intricate knowledge of the camshaft assembly than me. I also plan to take this explanation to a reputable specialist to see what they say.

Cheers!

 

[GillyC63]

Sorry to hear MB have washed their hands regarding your issue.
There is a chap in the US on Mbworld called the Machinest, he has posted his findings & is looking into making/repairing the worn camshaft adjuster plates. My understanding is the pin is of a harder material than the plates & they wear a groove into the plate, making the hole the pin fits in oval instead of round,the rattling is caused by pin moving in this now oval hole. Have a read on their w204 c63 forum, a lot of very informative information on there.

 

[Jigglyjohnson]

Which dealer are /was you using for the warranty work??
Have you thought of using a different dealer? Fresh pair of eyes on the issue. Is the noise in your opinion from one bank only or both ??
Could it be the tappet elements making noise when the oil is hot and thin ?

 

[R77C]

Sorry to hear MB have washed their hands regarding your issue.
There is a chap in the US on Mbworld called the Machinest, he has posted his findings & is looking into making/repairing the worn camshaft adjuster plates. My understanding is the pin is of a harder material than the plates & they wear a groove into the plate, making the hole the pin fits in oval instead of round,the rattling is caused by pin moving in this now oval hole. Have a read on their w204 c63 forum, a lot of very informative information on there.

Very interesting, thank you I will have a look at that this afternoon.

 

[R77C]

Which dealer are /was you using for the warranty work??
Have you thought of using a different dealer? Fresh pair of eyes on the issue. Is the noise in your opinion from one bank only or both ??
Could it be the tappet elements making noise when the oil is hot and thin ?

Not sure that will work in all honesty - the dealer ran out of ideas months ago and has been solely guided by MB head office. It got to the point where the Extended Warranty department had had enough and didn't want to put any more money into the car. Don't get me started....!

Per one of the other replies above, I could go to the Ombudsmen but a quick google of the reviews/people's experiences with them is enough to put me off completely wasting my time.

I think it's coming from the right bank but it's a little hard to tell. Could be the tappets - I might try some of that Liqui-Moly stuff that they bang on about in the US which seems to eradicate the noise.

 

[Spider10]

You want to listen to
Thread c63 2013 ppp granzfuzz ?

 

[pillow]

I think tappet noises are very much more a ticking sound, yours is a much more pronounced rattling.
Isn’t it just the one bank that had both the cam adjusters changed? In which case I would get yourself a stethoscope and see if you can identify definitively which bank is making the noise. If it is the side where the adjusters weren’t replaced then you know what you can do next.. if I remember wrong and they did replace the adjusters both sides and both cams on each side then disregard.

 

[R77C]

Yeah mine doesn't have any ticking whatsoever ..... yet!

Both banks, and all 4 adjusters replaced. The thread suggested by Gilly seems the most likely explanation. At the point where the Extended Warranty stopped supporting me the MB Technical Department suggested looking into the pins. When the Warranty began to refuse covering me that's when I started approaching the Mercedes CEO/Head of Customer Services etc - it was at this point that I got the technical explanation above.

It all just stinks of a fob off to me but unfortunately leaves me with very little options in terms of getting MB to sort it out. I guess the main question is, assuming it doesn't get worse, how much wear is it putting on the engine?

 

[GillyC63]

You want to listen to
Thread c63 2013 ppp granzfuzz ?

I think that may possibly be a failing idler pulley, I think I posted when I had one failing on mine, quite common.

 

[Agent156]

Yeah mine doesn't have any ticking whatsoever ..... yet!

Both banks, and all 4 adjusters replaced. The thread suggested by Gilly seems the most likely explanation. At the point where the Extended Warranty stopped supporting me the MB Technical Department suggested looking into the pins. When the Warranty began to refuse covering me that's when I started approaching the Mercedes CEO/Head of Customer Services etc - it was at this point that I got the technical explanation above.

It all just stinks of a fob off to me but unfortunately leaves me with very little options in terms of getting MB to sort it out. I guess the main question is, assuming it doesn't get worse, how much wear is it putting on the engine?

Apologizes for bumping this old thread - I have a 2014 C63 and just had the camshaft adjusters replaced over here in the US, and on warm start they still make a hell of a racket–probably even worse than before! Wanted to check to see if you were able to uncover any other source of the noise. Assuming the adjusters are working properly, and the cam/timing chain tensioner is too, what else could be causing the ratchety noise, especially on a warm engine when everything should be good and lubed?

The cams and lifters in my car are whisper quiet, and the noise seems to be coming from the front of the engine. Perhaps the timing chain(s) on the M156 stretch over time and they're slapping against the guides in a similar way that the B6 Audi S4 did? Just speculating of course, but this noise does not sound healthy and I cannot imagine it's good for whatever metal parts are contacting each other. 37,000 miles on my engine with liqui moly and ceratec friction additive have been used for the past 20K miles.

PS - 63motorsports in Canada make replacement pins and plates for the adjusters which seem to fix the problem for some, but I am trying to figure out of it's something besides the adjusters and both this thread and my experience indicate something else could be partially to blame. Appreciate any thoughts!

 

[R77C]

Hi Agent156! I'm afraid nothing new has been found out or learnt unfortunately. By the sounds of things you might have already seen it but this forum topic is quite good for explaining what is happening:

Cam adjuster lockplate repair prototypes done. - MBWorld.org Forums

C63 AMG (W204) - Cam adjuster lockplate repair prototypes done. - This does not represent the final surface finish, as my personal surface grinder is still sitting on my trailer under a tarp. It weighs more than a C63, so IÂm hoping the neighbor will take pity with his giant forklift....

mbworld.org

Our cars sound extremely similar as mine now has 37k miles on it! Interesting, as I was contemplating going down the whole liqui moly route to see if it made a difference but perhaps it doesn't from what you've said.

If what is said on the MBworld forum is true and that it's just sub-par manufacturing processes/materials then it's pretty poor of MB....

 

[Agent156]

Hi Agent156! I'm afraid nothing new has been found out or learnt unfortunately. By the sounds of things you might have already seen it but this forum topic is quite good for explaining what is happening:

Cam adjuster lockplate repair prototypes done. - MBWorld.org Forums

C63 AMG (W204) - Cam adjuster lockplate repair prototypes done. - This does not represent the final surface finish, as my personal surface grinder is still sitting on my trailer under a tarp. It weighs more than a C63, so IÂm hoping the neighbor will take pity with his giant forklift....

mbworld.org

Our cars sound extremely similar as mine now has 37k miles on it! Interesting, as I was contemplating going down the whole liqui moly route to see if it made a difference but perhaps it doesn't from what you've said.

If what is said on the MBworld forum is true and that it's just sub-par manufacturing processes/materials then it's pretty poor of MB....

Thank you for pointing me to that thread. Sounds like we may have the same, or at least a very similar issue: These engines generate a ton of heat. The pins don't lock as they should when the motor is shut off, and the heat soak keeps the oil warm and thin, reducing the strength of the little springs that push the pins into place in the lock plates. I have about 2,000 miles on all four new adjusters and the noise is terrible, so it's likely as-discussed in that thread - a parts quality control issue from the supplier and MB doesn't yet have a method or desire in goodwill-ing any previous work done. I think I will opt for the 63motorsports method and have them send me rebuilt adjusters with their strengthened plates, pins and springs. However I don't have a shop I trust to do the work, and as soon as you say "aftermarket" to most MB dealers, they don't want anything to do with it.

 

[8bit]

Resurrecting this thread as I've noticed that my car (2013 facelift C63) makes a brief rattle on engine start, maybe one start in every eight or so (warm or cold). I only got the car about a month ago so if there is something wrong then it's on the selling dealer to put it right but before I mention it to him, does this sound like the same "normal" behaviour for this engine? I'll try and get a video clip later today.

 

[Abdul]

Chasing ghosts mate. Enjoy it as is. They pretty much all rattle to some degree.

 

[Spider10]

This was mine

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[8bit]

Chasing ghosts mate. Enjoy it as is. They pretty much all rattle to some degree.

Thanks - just got the car and it has a number of other issues so maybe being a little jumpy. It did the brief rattle on startup twice today though, both times when warm (but not every warm start). I guess you're saying that it's only time to worry when it's doing it reliably every startup?

This was mine

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I'm not hearing any rattle in that, sounds OK to me?

 

[Spider10]

Thanks - just got the car and it has a number of other issues so maybe being a little jumpy. It did the brief rattle on startup twice today though, both times when warm (but not every warm start). I guess you're saying that it's only time to worry when it's doing it reliably every startup?



I'm not hearing any rattle in that, sounds OK to me?

That's a cold start, also no rattle on warm start either circa 50k miles

 

[badgx]

I upgraded the adjuster plates to stage 1 and while there upgraded the hydraulic lifters to the ones from black series M159 engine along with new E14 head bolts. My favourite, enjoyable modification and a prevlidge to have had to opportunity to work on

Got my camshaft adjuster plates 😀 from 63motorsport | AMG Lounge

Just received my camshaft adjuster plates from 63motorsport. They even supplied a fresh set of pins. Looking forward to strip down and rebuild🙂 Will be doing the head bolts too if it hasn't been changed to the new ones. Will soon see when I open the cover.

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