C63 PPP - KW V3 Coilovers

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Palmball

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
1,463
Location
Loughborough, UK
Car
Audi R8 V10+ & BMW M5
Firstly, apologies that this is going to be a long one and a little reminder as to why I have opted to change the suspension on a practically brand new performance-orientated car!

I'm on my second C63 which, although much better than my first one performance and quality wise, just didn't handle as well. The original pre-2010 C63s with a Performance Pack had a stiffer suspension set up that was widely criticised for giving too hard a ride for the UK (but in my eyes, was a perfectly acceptable compromise for the wonderfully flat handling that it offered). In response to this criticism, AMG fitted the 2010-on C63's with or without Performance Pack with standard suspension which, whilst still having a firm ride, generated a lot more body roll. So much more in fact that I had to do something.

I was going to simply fit the official AMG suspension from the older model but when this came in at nearly £1,500, I thought I could get better for the money. So I spent more...well, 50% more! And got what seems to be regarded (by the US AMG forums at least) as the single best modification you can do to a C63 - KW V3 Coilovers. These are fully adjustable - I mean ride height, compression damping & rebound damping. They also have very trick valves to give extremely good control...or so they said!

The question is...what are they really like??


The Supplier / Fitter

Well before I could try them, I had to find someone to fit them who knew what they were doing as I know nothing about suspension set-up. With so many variables on these kits, I wasn't going to start to find out on my own either! So, as I've mentioned before, I chose to use a company called Car Planet Racing (CPR) in Warrington as they came highly recommended and have considerable experience with AMG's...indeed, they're so highly regarded that they're currently developing some new kit FOR Kleeman!

So, after what seemed like an eternity waiting for the Coilovers to be manufactured (they're all made to order), I was duly promised they would arrive and could be fitted last weekend.

Alas, thanks to the terrible service from KW (in that they didn't send the Coilovers where they should have done...to CPR and not the UK importer!), the Coilovers hadn't arrived by the weekend. However, CPR were also upgrading my brake hoses and fluid so I decided to take the car to them and they kindly lent me a beautiful (and I mean it was beaut!) '97 Mondeo 1.8LX. I shudder at the thought of ever having to drive such a poorly maintained car again but I don't think it was strictly meant for 'customer use'!

I went up to collect my car this evening and, with much excitement and nervousness (as I've never had coilovers before), couldn't wait to try the car out.

However, I've got to say that the service given by CPR has been incredible. Firstly, their owner, Max, has called me everyday with an update after the Coilovers failed to turn up day after day. Secondly, as I live 90 miles away, he stayed open for me to collect the car this evening after I finished work. And that's not all...theres more! When I got there, not only was Max waiting for me but so was his chief engineer and the fitter who did all the work on the car. They then spent about an hour showing me all the work they had done, explaining how it works and the benefits I should be feeling from it. They even took the wheels off again so I could take some photo's!

Seriously, I am very impressed by these guys and would wholeheartedly recommend them to anyone for their quality of work and, in my personal experience of the motor trade, unprecedented customer experience.

They sent me on my way on the standard KW-suggested settings and have agreed to do any further adjustment for me as I see fit...but as you'll see shortly, this may not be necessary!


The Drive

When I finally got the car on the road......WOW!

I chose to drive home from Warrington to Leicestershire over the Peak District as they have some very challenging and undulating roads and I can definitely confirm that these KW's have transformed the cars handling. It is FLAT...I mean NO body roll at all at reasonable speeds. Near the limit, there is just enough movement to let you know you are nearing it but I have never driven a car that maintains such strong body control over the dips, crests and rough surfaces that the Peak District roads have. It has no bump steer and the suspension appears to have magically given it much better turn-in and the ability to grip harder for longer.

It's simply much too easy to drive much too fast.... it just seems like the car can cover any surface without being deflected and it simply had everything that I dared throw at it covered.

Now, I'm sure if you drive a 'proper' sports car, particularly a Porsche, then you'll be totally used to this sort of handling but for an 1800kg car to cover ground like my C63 did today, I'm amazed! Here is the first car that I've driven since owning a new-shape BMW M3 a couple of years ago that I reckon can now out-handle a (stock) M3 and handling-wise, I held that car in very high regard.

However, it's not perfect....not yet anyway. For normal driving and at low speeds it is VERY firm. Not bouncy or crashy...no, the suspension is too well damped and controlled for that...but just plain FIRM. You hit a bump, you feel it. You feel it once and thats it...but it's every bump no matter how small.

So, here comes the best bit....and this I am really excited about.

A chap I know from the BMW forum e90post (and who is a moderator on that forum) happens to know a lot of people in the car world and one of these people is a guy who does testing for AMG at the Nurburgring. And my new best friend has arranged for said chap to spend a day setting my car up on and around the Nurburgring to drive just how I want it to.

This is proper bespoke set-up by a guy who probably knows how to do these cars better than most and the day this takes place will be....on Saturday. I drive out tomorrow evening!

So, there is my first update after a couple of hours experience with this fantastic suspension and the great people I've dealt with in getting it on my car. It wasn't the cheapest, in fact it was probably one of the most expensive options I could have gone for, but the difference is incredible.


Now....for more power!

One more thing.....before I go to Germany tomorrow I'm having the Brabus B63 kit fitted :D so the car will be fully desrestricted!

The thing is, I may not have bothered with it had I known what I do now (hey ho!)....CPR put my car on their Dyno-Dynamics rolling road and, totally standard, the car put out an incredible 506.9bhp. Thats a full 20bhp more than AMG claim and confirms my thoughts that my car feels significantly quicker than the official 30bhp increase that is quoted between it and my old non-Plus (457bhp) model.

In fact, CPR said it was the most powerful 'stock' '63 engined car they had ever dyno'd and put out more than even the SL's in standard tune. Those forged internals must be worth something after all....but I just hope I still get to see a good like for like increase after tomorrow's Brabus kit is fitted!

Heres a few photo's of the suspension (and new brake lines) and how the car looks....it's 10mm lower than standard so theres very little ride height difference although it still had some settling to do at this point...it looks lower in my driveway now!


Front Suspension:

P1010058.jpg


P1010060.jpg


P1010061.jpg



Additional Reservoir on the damper:

P1010059.jpg




Rear Suspension:

P1010064.jpg




The car (sorry, only one I took for now):

P1010066-1.jpg
 
WOW....just WOW!

Thank you for the update Palmball, it is very welcome!
I really enjoy reading your thorough, informative reports - you're a man who knows his stuff, that's for certain.

I can't wait to hear about the B63 upgrade and your 'Ring trip. Be sure to take a video or two of the 'Ring :D

Many thanks again,

Darren
 
Now....for more power!

One more thing.....before I go to Germany tomorrow I'm having the Brabus B63 kit fitted :D so the car will be fully desrestricted!

Now where is that 350 you had problems with :D:D
Thnx for sharing mate,nice write up but as above make sure you get a nice video and see if there`s any way to find out what top speed you can reach,please
 
Ha Ha, where do you find time for work? LOL

509bhp? Sounds good to me.

I also once remember a similar 'loaner', a 1992 Audi 80. Cosmetically lovely but a shocker above 45mph!

I eagerly await to see what is next.....Brabus V12 upgrade?
 
Excellent post - I'm excited for you! Take lots of pics at the Ring and lets have lots of feedback on the trip.:thumb:
 
WOW....just WOW!

Thank you for the update Palmball, it is very welcome!
I really enjoy reading your thorough, informative reports - you're a man who knows his stuff, that's for certain.

I can't wait to hear about the B63 upgrade and your 'Ring trip. Be sure to take a video or two of the 'Ring :D

Many thanks again,

Darren

You're welcome Darren - glad you like what I have to say. I enjoying writing about it too so I'm glad someone is interested lol!

B63 upgrade - I do hope I can tell the difference given the strong figures its already putting out :wallbash:


Thnx for sharing mate,nice write up but as above make sure you get a nice video and see if there`s any way to find out what top speed you can reach,please

Again, glad you liked it...thanks for the feedback. Not sure if I've got the balls for an outright top speed but I would like to just beat what I got in my M3 which was 170mph!


I eagerly await to see what is next.....Brabus V12 upgrade?

If I had a spare £250k lol. But even then...no!

Not much else to do except a carbon-fibre rear diffuser to match the rear spoiler and a bit of heat management around the engine - it gets very hot in there and there are some things that can successfuly be put in place to reduce this.


Take lots of pics at the Ring and lets have lots of feedback on the trip.:thumb:

I'm sure I can accomodate thsi request!
 
You could add ceramic brakes......if that's what they are called...:D enjoy the ring - looking forward to seeing the pics
 
KW make some good quality kit. Good choice.

As for wanting flat handling without going for a stiff suspension set up, surely upgraded roll bars is what would have done the trick?

The ring is a very bumpy track, so I think you'll find the set up will be softened and ride height lifted quite alot if optimised for those conditions. Perhaps even too soft for UK roads. Just bear that in mind. You wouldn't want to go back to square one (I would imagine AMG use the ring as a suspension test track).

Good luck with the testing, it sounds awesome having someone help you out that knows the car and what he is doing :)

Don't forget to rig up a 'covert' camera to film the in car testing, and get your stopwatch out.:devil:
 
I would like to just beat what I got in my M3 which was 170mph!

Shouldn't be a problem in the derestricted C63.
My brother's M3 hit his limiter at an indicated 168mph (GPS 162), while I hit my limiter at 169mph (GPS 164) in the RS4 behind him :eek:

I believe a standard derestricted C63 is faster, so with the B63 upgrade, it should be faster than both, for sure :rock:

Darren
 
I haven't got a camcorder to record anything but I'll see what I can do with my camera and a passenger!

Just sat in MB Milton Keynes now watching my car getting Brabus'd up!
 
The PPP pack has composite brakes on the front so they should be up to the job.

What is included in the B63 upgrade? Is it just a remap and derestrict?

I would also be interested in a carbon rear diffuser but I woul want to see one in the flesh before parting with some cash. There are some cheap and nasty ones out there.

Have a great time....
 
Brabus has two upgrades for the C63, one with and one without new sport cats. With the sport cats you get anextra 10bhp over the 'standard' 63bhp increase.
 
excellent post, thanks, you have a lovely car there and good to see the modding scene is not dead yet :)
 
Suspension update and Brabus kit!!

Okey dokey...I'm back from the green hell and in one piece. What of the cars' set-up then??

Well, it's good news and bad news (for now) but before I go into that, who was this chap that was setting my car up?? :dk:

The guy I know who arranged this for me told me he knew a person who was a test engineer for AMG at the Nurburgring but I really wasn't sure just how much he would have had to do with AMG given he won't be directly employed by them.

Well, after speaking to him (or attempting to given my lack of German and his limited English) it appears I have been a very, very lucky boy! :) Said chap is called Uli Baumert and is a freelance race engineer who is based and has premises on the outskirts of the Nurburgring.

As it happens, Uli is the main man hired by AMG whenever they need development miles to be carried out in their cars and Uli has helped develop all of AMG's recent cars including the C63, SL65 Black, CLK63 Black and the AMG versions of the SL, CL and S Class! The only one he hasn't done was the SLS which was done a lot more secretively - i.e. nobody outside of AMG!

He also works from AMGs premises based at the ring to adjust any of the car's set-up during his testing, and as an example of how much he does, he and the two people that work for him did over 100k development test miles in the C63 before it was launched. His normal week is around 1000 miles round the ring plus even more on normal roads so he knows the place well!

He did tell me how frustrated he can get with AMG as they often ignore his recommendations! For instance, he recommended against the Performance Pack suspension on the original C63's as it was too stiff and he's not happy that AMG also launched the SL65 Black with such a hard set-up - he showed me a stretch of road on one of our drives round the area where he said the SL Blsck just couldn't cope with the road in the way my car did as it would have been all over the place!

In fact, he pleaded with AMG to release that car with a softer set-up but AMG said that as most would be used on the track, a stiff set-up is what the customers wanted and thats what they were going to get!....Uli's best explanation of the suspension set-up on the SL Black was, and I quote....'Big sh!t'! A phrase he also used to explain the braking system on the current BMW M3 lol!

So, what a surreal position to find myself in...being driven around the 'ring by the actual guy who did the development miles in my car! :D I was grinning like a cat all day but it was especially good when he got back to the workshop and started tinkering about with it. By feeling how the damper responded in his hand, he was able to find a set-up that he thought would work - now that's experience!

When I got back on the road I couldn't believe it - the harshness, bumpiness that was there from the over-stiff original set-up was gone and, whilst still hard, it was compliant and relatively comfortable.

The handling also stayed resolutely flat and when Uli took me round the 'ring, he literally rang rings around everyone....not a single car passed us! We overtook the ring taxi :D and various Porsche 911 GT3's. The best 'kill' from my point of view was a Porsche 911 GT2 - the lightweight track-biased turbocharged version that we went right round the outside of. God knows what the driver in that, fully kitted out in full race gear, thought when he was so comprehensively passed by my humble 4-door saloon but I think it was more to do with Uli's driving ability and knowledge of the track than anything else!

What was brilliant was seeing just what my car could do when driven properly and when I drove it, although I had no idea what I was doing in comparison, I was just delighted by how it felt!

So, what's the not so good news?

Well, all of the above relates to changes he made on the front suspension only (yes, that alone made so much difference). He felt he couldn't get the rears to behave the way he wanted as even on the softest setting, they're too hard. He also didn't have the time to remove them fully from the car which is required on the C63 to adjust the top rebound damping as it's inaccessible when fitted to the car. So the back end remains too firm at present.

What Uli is going to do is have my car back (oh no...not another excuse for a trip to the 'ring??) :D. Very fortunately he also knows the guys at KW very well given AMG use them and he is going to send my rear dampers to them to be re-valved to his specification.

So, is this really needed?? Well, when I got back to UK with our horrendous roads, I could feel the back end is just soooo stiff in comparison and lets a lot of vibration through the body...it wasn't that noticeable on the continent but the minute I drove out of Dover and onto a British motorway, I could tell that Uli's analysis was 100% correct!

At the minute I am still blown away at what has happened this weekend as you just couldn't buy this sort of thing (indeed, Uli charged me just €100 for about 4 hours work!) and I am very grateful to the guy who set this all up for me (he's a moderator and quickly becoming a good friend on a forum from the other side...BMW!). My car is about 80% where it needs to be but I know that once Uli has finished with it, I'm going to have a C63 set up like no other.

So, two weeks Friday I pop it over to him with a friend brining me home (after a weekend at the 'ring of course!) and a further two weeks later, I go and pick it up again when I was due to go out anyway to see the Spa Grand Prix!

I'm really sorry that I have no pictures but I promise I'll take a few more when I go out again in a couple of weeks and the whole surreal experience isn't so much of a surprise!


BRABUS!

I had my Brabus kit fitted by Mercedes in Milton Keynes just before I went out to Germany but it almost seems like an anti-climax compared to what went on with the suspension! Firstly, I was really impressed with the facility there and the guys I dealt with were real car-people - they even got me into the workshop to discuss where I wanted the engine badges!

With regards to the power, my butt-dyno definitely tells me it's quicker - where before it just felt bloody fast across the whole rev range from about 2000rpm upwards, it can now add really strong 'thrust you back into the seat' top-end pull. It's very reminiscent of how my BMW M6 would pull at the top end but with the added bonus of much stronger torque lower down. You've got to be very sharp if using the paddles to change up before it bangs into the limiter such is the acceleration at the top end!

I'm having it dyno'd again next weekend so we'll see if it's a real increase over the standard 507bhp or just all in my mind!

Thanks for reading and I promise pictures next time!

Andrew
 
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Great write up, and glad it all went well. Seriously good looking car you got there.

Did he raise the ride height at all? It is bumpy on the ring.
 
Great write up, and glad it all went well. Seriously good looking car you got there.

Did he raise the ride height at all? It is bumpy on the ring.

Thanks!

No not at all - the ride height was fine (it's already on nearly it's highest setting!) and the ring is actually nowhere near as bumpy as our roads over here!!

In fact, when going round the ring I initially thought he may have softened it a bit too much but TBH, when I got back over to the UK's wonderful and unique roads, it is definitely not too soft...it is still too hard but that's the current problem with the back end.

What I think you're referring to are the curbs on the 'ring which are bumpy and a lot of people do ride them....including Uli and, now I've seen how it works, me!

The KW V3's have a very trick valving system that means if you hit a curb or ride them on tracks, the main valves get bypassed by the shock and the damper just soaks it up. It's almost like a very soft spring/damper but obviously it isn't and it's the internal valving doing all the work! It's very clever and very effective!
 
I guess the only picture needed is

10-1.gif
 
Thank you Palmball. An excellent further report :rock:

Post-Brabus mod and delimit, did you feel brave to take to Vmax? ;) :cool:

Darren

Well, in a way yes but I only had an opportunity at night as there was just too much traffic in the day.

The Brabus kit is still limited to 300km/h (186 mph) so it's not strictly derestricted!

I managed to get it 182mph but bottled it as I just couldn't see where I was going clear enough which is less than ideal at that speed!

It pulled very quickly to around 170mph hut the rate slowed down after that...it was still pulling reasonably when I backed off though!

That was definitely fast enough given the conditions and the car remained solid and stable which was good!
 

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