Can any one help with this issue

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My statement about pad wear was based on the OP’s car - an eight year old W204 with 61k miles, that had been MOT tested and serviced at a Mercedes-Benz main dealer just a few days before.

It actually said:

MOT checks include the minimum thickness of brake linings, the braking performance itself on a rolling road, wheel bearings and indeed imbalance/brake fluctuations would be picked up on this test. Likewise a main dealer would not miss a chance to increase those brake condition assessments from amber to red, or indeed other noted wear items including wheel bearings.

Your description of the braking system and diagnostics is sound, but so is the logic that W204 wheel speed sensors are prone to failure, the symptoms described by the OP and that the car has already been diagnosed with this specific fault by a mechanic :thumb:

No mention of adverse braking performance from the OP either. Surely it would in the first instance just kick the ABS/ESP systems into operation in a similar way to a loss of traction on one corner anyway - rather than a stored fault code for an implausible wheel speed sensor on one corner (?)

At this stage, I would still give credit to the original diagnosis and perhaps start with the obvious - the wheel speed sensor on the NSF - that’s where my money would be :)
Yes OK, but where is the scan tool print out with wave form evidence to back up the original diagnosis to present to the customer ?
That is my overall questioning as a shop owner selling the job?

I don't give rip as to what the MOT inspectorate equivalent has to say about it , nor do I want to dealer diag on it as well. (It will go into "Customer States" on the opening of the R/O by my Service Writer )
I want to see it on my shop's rolling road, and on my tech's roads test .to see if I can verify the condition & sell the job .
Retaining customer confidence is job #1 here !
Tuercas viejas
 
Yes OK, but where is the scan tool print out with wave form evidence to back up the original diagnosis to present to the customer ?
That is my overall questioning as a shop owner selling the job?

I don't give rip as to what the MOT inspectorate equivalent has to say about it , nor do I want to dealer diag on it as well. (It will go into "Customer States" on the opening of the R/O by my Service Writer )
I want to see it on my shop's rolling road, and on my tech's roads test .to see if I can verify the condition & sell the job .
Retaining customer confidence is job #1 here !
Tuercas viejas
I’m not sure the majority of places (even MB) would go into diagnostics that far for routine faults.

Say it’s an intermittent fault (sensor working for a time, then trips out).

The diagnosis with wave form would confirm it worked when you tested it. That’s why the car stored a fault code for the issue, and it was able to be reset for a period of time.

In the UK, the labour rate for in depth diagnosis would probably exceed the cost of a new sensor - and if it’s a known/common issue (I think they are on 204s) then that is probably the most logical place to start. A diagnosis of a stored fault that has been cleared and repeated a second time for the same part should be more than enough to justify replacement in this instance. 45 minutes driving with an oscilloscope in the car would be madness by comparison! :)
 
I’m not sure the majority of places (even MB) would go into diagnostics that far for routine faults.

Say it’s an intermittent fault (sensor working for a time, then trips out).

The diagnosis with wave form would confirm it worked when you tested it. That’s why the car stored a fault code for the issue, and it was able to be reset for a period of time.

In the UK, the labour rate for in depth diagnosis would probably exceed the cost of a new sensor - and if it’s a known/common issue (I think they are on 204s) then that is probably the most logical place to start. A diagnosis of a stored fault that has been cleared and repeated a second time for the same part should be more than enough to justify replacement in this instance. 45 minutes driving with an oscilloscope in the car would be madness by comparison! :)
OK, so it presumably gets fixed by the shot gun approach and post repair, the customer promptly has a collision accident and blames your work
Then what documentary evidence do you have on your R/O shop records in an exculpatory written form to support yourself in case of litigation.?,
Other than perhaps i shot gunned it as the cheapest repair I could offer ?
Tuercas Viejas
 
OK, so it presumably gets fixed by the shot gun approach and post repair, the customer promptly has a collision accident and blames your work
Then what documentary evidence do you have on your R/O shop records in an exculpatory written form to support yourself in case of litigation.?,
Other than perhaps i shot gunned it as the cheapest repair I could offer ?
Tuercas Viejas
Not sure shotgun approach would be correct in this instance. The car has stored a fault code on MBs own system for a defective component. Parts fail, that’s life - even new ones sometimes.

Worst case in this scenario - the fault code comes back, car displays the same warning on dash - not sure there’s liability there.

Isn’t that what’s already happened with the mechanic #2 who diagnosed pads that passed the MOT just a few days prior, and replaced what sounds like the pad wear sensors then reset the fault code for a wheel speed sensor :)

I was merely pointing out in your (technically excellent) diagnostics session, 45 minutes driving around with an Oscilloscope doesn’t guarantee success either. What do you do if the fault doesn’t display under those conditions - leave the sensor and hope for the best? Or change it based on the fact that it’s stored the same code twice under operating conditions whilst customer is driving.

The 204 wheel speed sensors are a known weakness too AFAIK, sometimes you have to rely on a little experience too with stuff like this ;)
 
If a customer pays for a diagnosis, they will get the print out. Regular customers do not have to pay for diagnostics, this is to deter other garages who haven’t invested in Star machines getting a free diagnosis.
We don’t have to sell our services, an initial diagnosis print out and the problem being fixed suffices unless requested.
 
Not sure shotgun approach would be correct in this instance. The car has stored a fault code on MBs own system for a defective component. Parts fail, that’s life - even new ones sometimes.

Worst case in this scenario - the fault code comes back, car displays the same warning on dash - not sure there’s liability there.

Isn’t that what’s already happened with the mechanic #2 who diagnosed pads that passed the MOT just a few days prior, and replaced what sounds like the pad wear sensors then reset the fault code for a wheel speed sensor :)

I was merely pointing out in your (technically excellent) diagnostics session, 45 minutes driving around with an Oscilloscope doesn’t guarantee success either. What do you do if the fault doesn’t display under those conditions - leave the sensor and hope for the best? Or change it based on the fact that it’s stored the same code twice under operating conditions whilst customer is driving.

The 204 wheel speed sensors are a known weakness too AFAIK, sometimes you have to rely on a little experience too with stuff like this ;)
Yes, so the answer is DON'T make the repair decision for the customer!
Well at least on this of the pond you don't EVER! !
The repair option goes something like this:-
"Well Mr Jones the sensor is only showing a stored code and our workshop stats on that model & the recorded mileage indicate that a simple sensor change SHOULD fix it,
BUT that stated there always the chance that its something else in the making which we haven't discovered to date as a caveat .
Therefore the scan charge is $150 which incudes diag labor, & having approved the scan and diag charge, the replacement of the sensor will be say $125 plus 4,46% tax & I hour labor if we install it and test prove it .
If you want us to investigate further our labor charges are $150/hr .
We bill /sell workshop time in 4 hour increments on such investigations, so can I get your approval on that ? If so sign the repair contract here."


Then the R/O supplement is written up with sign here under full understanding entering into our repair contract obligations and caveats recorded. .

If the customer wants to take it elsewhere for a second opinion its fine , just pay the diag charges & labor times involved.
Once its signed as a diag' contract or a repair contract, details of the scan are presented and discussed immediately after diag is completed .

To summarize for us, we must always have the customer in control, making the repair approval with full disclosures being the ultimate customer decision
Once you breach that understanding you may not have a simple Anglo Saxon contract in force .
Offeror Offeree and Acceptance with Consideration. Applies here!
Its a bit Dickensian perhaps, but that applies on both sides of the pond in business !
Tuercas viejas

p.s. Maybe a bit before some of the readership were borne, but a famous late President of the USA once stated "The business of the USA is business"
And business means simple contracts however trivial in everyday life, including car repairs.
TV
 
After watching few videos on YouTube I tried to get codes myself here is the list of codes I got from car multimedia, I am trying to search it over internet but couldn’t findout anything yet
 
After watching few videos on YouTube I tried to get codes myself here is the list of codes I got from car multimedia, I am trying to search it over internet but couldn’t findout anything yet
Forum is not uploading picture due to size I am writing those codes

01-4c-1be86
01-4C-84003
01-4C-1BE93
 
Yes, so the answer is DON'T make the repair decision for the customer!
Well at least on this of the pond you don't EVER! !
The repair option goes something like this:-
"Well Mr Jones the sensor is only showing a stored code and our workshop stats on that model & the recorded mileage indicate that a simple sensor change SHOULD fix it,
BUT that stated there always the chance that its something else in the making which we haven't discovered to date as a caveat .
Therefore the scan charge is $150 which incudes diag labor, & having approved the scan and diag charge, the replacement of the sensor will be say $125 plus 4,46% tax & I hour labor if we install it and test prove it .
If you want us to investigate further our labor charges are $150/hr .
We bill /sell workshop time in 4 hour increments on such investigations, so can I get your approval on that ? If so sign the repair contract here."


Then the R/O supplement is written up with sign here under full understanding entering into our repair contract obligations and caveats recorded. .

If the customer wants to take it elsewhere for a second opinion its fine , just pay the diag charges & labor times involved.
Once its signed as a diag' contract or a repair contract, details of the scan are presented and discussed immediately after diag is completed .

To summarize for us, we must always have the customer in control, making the repair approval with full disclosures being the ultimate customer decision
Once you breach that understanding you may not have a simple Anglo Saxon contract in force .
Offeror Offeree and Acceptance with Consideration. Applies here!
Its a bit Dickensian perhaps, but that applies on both sides of the pond in business !
Tuercas viejas

p.s. Maybe a bit before some of the readership were borne, but a famous late President of the USA once stated "The business of the USA is business"
And business means simple contracts however trivial in everyday life, including car repairs.
TV
I appreciate your time taken to explain customer choice and acceptance of repair methods, but that’s pretty much what’s happened in the OP’s circumstance too. Ie - they got a diagnosis from mechanic #1, doesn’t look as though he was forced into any repairs?

Likewise you would need authorisation for the labour costs in terms of diagnosis before you start.
This is not some complex liability case or huge repair, perhaps things are different elsewhere but in the UK most service facilities have to get authorisation for repairs and that applies to both the cost of diagnosis and the costs for repair.

I would be pretty annoyed if a garage tried to charge me a similar amount to the cost of repair to justify an extended test drive to diagnose the most likely outcome that had already been diagnosed elsewhere.

This does not appear to be a complex fault at this stage! :doh:
 
I can't imagine why when, mechanic A diagnosed a wheel speed sensor, that you would ignore this in favour of paying mechanic B to replace pads and wear sensors, which are clearly the least likely cause of the warning light/codes.
Maybe it's not the wheel speed sensor, it could be the pickup/reluctor ring.
It sounds crazy to me, to go off in another direction spending money on something else.
 
I can't imagine why when, mechanic A diagnosed a wheel speed sensor, that you would ignore this in favour of paying mechanic B to replace pads and wear sensors, which are clearly the least likely cause of the warning light/codes.
Maybe it's not the wheel speed sensor, it could be the pickup/reluctor ring.
It sounds crazy to me, to go off in another direction spending money on something else.
I can it, happens every day.
Customers have choices, and sometime prefer to seek alternative remedies/advise, even though the first repair shop accurately diagnosed it correctly . Maybe it was something on the internet that caused doubt, then , perhaps family member who is "handy with cars" & can do better for less !
Then, the big issue of a budget constraint to fix it, is in the background & as yet undisclosed.
Maybe it was was the posture of the tech explaining the job who knows??

Whether you like it or not boiled down, auto repair shops (even dealers) sell experience/information, service and parts at a profit,
Its not a dirty word.

So getting the the customer to sign the repair order is simply "selling the job". Not always easy

Now me as a tech gearhead for more than 65 years in this business & a shop owner with lots of financial investment skin in the game, I tend to see things in technical black & white spectrum.
Like SMS quoted, this is not a difficult job to resolve but in many cases in spite tech print outs etc. the customer is reticent.

For that reason I employ a female service writer who was top gun tech with a Nissan dealer & before that with Firestone.
She is very good at closing a repair sale, far better than me at it, so I employ someone to do that.
My shop sales/service are always consistent with profit margins meeting my monthly expectations/forecasts.

So! I will close with a question ?
What is the most important thing about running an Auto repair business ?
Or any service related business for that matter?

Tuerca Viejas
 
To emphasize my last post on this , here is prime example of no matter how thorough with diag, 'you" the customer has the last say for good or bad.
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Tuercas Viejas
 

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