cancelling a direct debit and disputing telephone conversations

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SilverSaloon

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1994 W124 E300D Estate, 1985 R107 280SL
hi

i am in dispute with a insurance company over payment of a new insurance policy. basically, they cold called us and quoted full total £X amount for the policy. we took the cover out as it was the price we were happy with. We got the paperwork through and the price is £50 more. the £50 stems from interest from paying monthly.

so we phoned them to ask what was going on - they say we are incorrect and we were told the correct price. we are 100% sure what was quoted as i wrote it down at the time as i had a list of best prices i had got elsewhere.

anyway, we told them we wanted to cancel it then as its not what they said it was. we are told its £50 to cancel. we say we're not paying for their f***ups. after several phone calls and a letter posted that day we are now in the position where they want £80. £50 penatlty for cancelling and £30 for the cover up to today (even though they say we didnt say to cancel the 1st time we phoned them (2 days after cover started). if we dont pay soon price is £90. !! :mad:

We asked them to check recordings of the phone call to verify what we say is correct - they say it wasnt recorded. Now after the last phonecall today, the guy there says his boss was listening to the original cold call and can remember that she stated all the correct T&C's.... which is a complete lie.

anyway, so they basically want £50 to cancel and £40 for less than a weeks cover (premium was only £20 a month in the 1st place).

i've deleted the direct debit they set up.

what can they do? can they still take any money from the bank account now, or am i safe in thinking all they can do is keep on demanding the money, which i can and will refuse all the way to court if it comes to it. i'll pay a reasonable amount for the 2 days cover even though the policy isnt the price we wanted, but not a penny more.

we have not signed any paperwork. also on the documents sent through to sign, it says "rights to cancel" - penalty charge of 'nil', but they state that the £50 was explained in the original call.... :(

i also insure my caravan through them - not next year!

sorry but i am fuming at the unprofessionallism of this well known company.
 
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Distance selling rules apply? You have 7days perhaps more to cancel without cost
 
I understand all such companies offer a 14 day "cooling off period",so check the T&Cs you received plus their website.

Keep checking with your bank to ensure they don't re-instate the DD - if they do then call the bank & explain it must not be followed through.

I don't believe they have a leg to stand on - there are also "distance selling" regulations which would be worth checking.

You shouldn't have a problem,but worth naming & shaming here in case anyone else has had a similar experience -these things tend to occur in batches.

I just took out home & contents cover with Bank of Scotland this week and they were very clear on my rights to cancel within 14 days

Good luck
 
Similar thing happened to a friend of mine earlier this year. He got in touch with the insurance ombudsman who intervened and sorted it to his satisfaction. Good luck.
 
As you have cancelled your direct debit they cannot take any money from your account without your approval.

I would write them a letter, recorded delivery, stating the facts and exercising your right to cancel as per the Terms and Conditions that you have received in the post. If it clearly states cost of cancellation is nil they have no recourse surely. Distance selling regulations gives you some support here as you legally have a right to cancel within (I think) 14 days.

I'd expect to pay for any time on cover but not for a period after you've instructed them to cancel and that cancellation hasn't been applied.

Hope you get sorted
 
With all insurance policies sold over the phone in the UK, you should have a 14 day cooling off period.

What will happen next is they will contact a debt collection agency regarding your "debt" with them.

I would write a polite letter to the debt agency and inform them of facts so far, and that any further contact from the debt agency will be passed to your solicitors and as such incur charges from said solicitors on a T&M basis which will be appended to the costs of bringing the whole parody to court.

If they insist... just ride it through until it gets to court - they don't have a leg to stand on! Just make sure you record everything, names, dates, times, etc. Oh, and try to move all conversation to paper rather than phone calls. (more of a paper trail!)

M.
 
If its a large company they WILL record all calls, it is fairly common to hear "not recorded" when it's their cockup.
When you told them to stick it, did you take cover out elsewhere immediately? If you did then for a start you have proof that they CANNOT charge you for duplicate cover.
It's not unusual at all for short-period charges to apply for an early cancellation - after all, companies are not in business to make a loss, and on low-premium policies their admin costs represent a large proportion of the premium. Cancelling actually costs more than the policy staying live(as long as there are no claims or mid term adjustments) due to the extra admin. In this case however, it is not a voluntary cancellation by you, it is due to their b*lls-up.
Cold called, cockup, then shaft you anyway? Not reasonable at all. A prorata premium should apply, not short-period. Prove the alternative cover is in place and work out what the cost per day is and pay that.
Tell them you'll see them in court for the rest if that's what they want. Too much hassle for them......
 
I have had a situation where a direct debit was re-established after I cancelled it. However, it only took a call to the bank to point out their error for funds to be returned. Suggest you write to your bank to confirm your instructions.
Also had an insurance firm try it on in a similar way. Never did get a copy of the original phone call recording despite many requests. They had my money and refused to return the correct amount after the policy was cancelled. I ended up with the insurance ombudsman who found in my favour.
 
i'm now pi$$ed off as they have phoned my wife now (who is down as policy holder) (who is very upset with all this) and they agreed to half the £50 penatly, she said no and then offered to waive it. But they want £32 for 2 days cover, which is a rip off in my view (this is almost 2 months of payments if i were to continue the cover).

but, wife has said ok.... :mad: but not paid anything yet.

does this mean we now have to pay it or can i continue to dispute as i really dont see why i should pay anything other than 2 days cover.
 
I think you've already had all the advice you need
Cancel direct debit
Dispute it, if its not recorded its your word against theirs
You'll need to pay for the cover you've had at the rate originally agreed
As they seem to have sold you a finance agreement there's a statutory cooling off period
 
They're just trying it on Derek. They've caved on the £50 because they know they haven't got a leg to stand on.

If cover is £20 a month divided by 30 days = £0.66 per day.

You have had 2 days cover with them , offer to send them a cheque for £1.30 and tell them thats the end of it.
 
we have not signed any paperwork. also on the documents sent through to sign, it says "rights to cancel" - penalty charge of 'nil', but they state that the £50 was explained in the original call.... :(

You've behaved reasonably if you've flagged up the price difference promptly when receiving the documentation.

If their response is at variance to the written Ts & Cs then they're just digging themselves in deeper.

i also insure my caravan through them - not next year!

My tendency is to write.

If it were my wife she'd phone them and escalate the issue and deal with it verbally - and directly confront them with the fact that they will lose existing business.

sorry but i am fuming at the unprofessionallism of this well known company.

Name & shame ....
 
They're just trying it on Derek. They've caved on the £50 because they know they haven't got a leg to stand on.

If cover is £20 a month divided by 30 days = £0.66 per day.

You have had 2 days cover with them , offer to send them a cheque for £1.30 and tell them thats the end of it.

They say that it wasnt cancelled until yesterday and that we didnt ask them to cancel it on the 1st call.... which we did as thats why we had the whole £50 stuff told to us......

Manager was supposed to phone us back on the tuesday (which he didnt and only spoken to him today). it appears they didnt cancel it when we asked them to. our understanding it was cancelled on the friday and the manager was going to phone us regarding the £50 fee, not the fact whether to cancel or not.

EDIT: Just rechecked bank account online and they have set up a new direct debit. i've just cancelled that one too.
 
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Put it in writing - the facts according to you - written record will help if you need to take it further
 
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Am having a similar situation with a mobile bband supplier. Had their dongle for about five months of a 12m contract. Went abroad and roamed ok within the contract. Went abroad again 3 months later and it didnt work. Had hugely important estimate for massive job to do whilst away so had to ring their premium c/serv line (from Italy!!). They told me free roaming was dropped a month earlier and they'd written to me (they hadn't). . As we were out in the wilds I had no option but to pay £50 then £50 again to get coverage. Told them I would be cancelling as they were in breach, they said I couldn't.
Came home, wrote to them outlining why I was cancelling. Dongle wasn't working anyway. Rang bank who couldn't trace any direct debit anyway but I told them to cancel anything they could find.
Took out new agreement with alternative supplier (this was 13 months ago). Wife found a spuriously-named dd on our a/c which turned out to be original company so it appeared we'd been charged ~ £200 that wasn't due. Immediately cancelled at bank and contacted first company whose response was "tough". Well, thats what I think the asian lady was saying, it was hard to tell. The attitude was unbelievable. I told them I would immediately email a copy of my canc. letter and the first bill from the replacing company. They said not to bother as they wouldn't do anything. The corker was that she openly admitted she could see there had been no activity or connections in fourteen months and "you shouldn't be paying for something you don't have" but wanted to process a cancellation from yesterday with a 30 day notice period!!! Needless to say I told her I would take it further and it took a 30 minute argument to get an email address to send the complaint to. During this 30 mins (you'll love this) she said to me "look we dont offer refunds as it is your error ( :( ) but in an effort to win you back as a customer pay is £15 today by credit card and we will send you a new modem and a netbook - we wouldn't do this for just anyone you know.......".

Needless to say, the email bounced back as "unknown addressee" or whatever, but I've got the bit between my teeth now. Even more so as I am snowed in and can't walk since Tuesday's ankle operation. Grrrrrrr.

Back on topic now, soapbox put away lol
 
They say that it wasnt cancelled until yesterday and that we didnt ask them to cancel it on the 1st call.... which we did as thats why we had the whole £50 stuff told to us......

Manager was supposed to phone us back on the tuesday (which he didnt and only spoken to him today). it appears they didnt cancel it when we asked them to. our understanding it was cancelled on the friday and the manager was going to phone us regarding the £50 fee, not the fact whether to cancel or not.

EDIT: Just rechecked bank account online and they have set up a new direct debit. i've just cancelled that one too.

Isn't that fraudulent - you already cancelled it at the bank??????

Did you immediately arrange cover elsewhere as I said earlier? They cannot charge for dual cover as to have dual cover is an offence
 
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They say that it wasnt cancelled until yesterday and that we didnt ask them to cancel it on the 1st call.... which we did as thats why we had the whole £50 stuff told to us......

Manager was supposed to phone us back on the tuesday (which he didnt and only spoken to him today). it appears they didnt cancel it when we asked them to. our understanding it was cancelled on the friday and the manager was going to phone us regarding the £50 fee, not the fact whether to cancel or not.

Seems the dispute deepens, so it is absolutely crucial that you commit the sequence of events to writing keeping it 100% factual and trying to avoid confrontation - simply points A to whatever, confirming your conversation that you wished to cancel on whatever date it was. Don't quote them except when it's in your favour.

Send it recorded delivery, copy a director (do actually send to them) and conclude by suggesting they expend their efforts towards accurate recording of events rather than arguing a black and white case which you now consider closed.

Always bear in mind in such a letter that it could be produced in court - judges hate filtering through subjective, "I thought this and I thought that" statements, so if you have a concise statement of fact then it works in your favour however far it goes.
 
They say that it wasnt cancelled until yesterday and that we didnt ask them to cancel it on the 1st call.... which we did as thats why we had the whole £50 stuff told to us......

Manager was supposed to phone us back on the tuesday (which he didnt and only spoken to him today). it appears they didnt cancel it when we asked them to. our understanding it was cancelled on the friday and the manager was going to phone us regarding the £50 fee, not the fact whether to cancel or not.

Doesn't matter what they say. If you requested cancellation and they failed to do that it is down to them. If they dispute this ask for the recording of the call to prove what they are saying. Oh that's right they've lost it :rolleyes:

As said before, write to them, pay what you think you owe and tell them if they want any more than this they'll have to take you to court. Easy for me to say because I am not in your position but honestly this is what I would do.
 
Isn't that fraudulent - you already cancelled it at the bank??????

Did you immediately arrange cover elsewhere as I said earlier? They cannot charge for dual cover as to have dual cover is an offence

we redid the cover a few days after initially phoning them. So not immediatly no

thanks for everyone's advice.

i'm not sure if SHMBO has caused problem by agreeing to the £32..... i still dont see why we should pay anything but 2 days * (1 months payment / 30).....

they also are saying this is a renewal of last year's policy (which was also with them) but they have sent a complete new agreement and set up a new direct debit. the 1st one i deleted was last years which i had paid the final premium. they even said on the phone that in 2009 (start of last years policy) they sent a pack detailing the £50 and thats the one we should have read and know about for the cold call we recieved.

its now not really about the money - i dont want them to "win" in hope of a better word as its plain discraceful how they have conducted themselves here.
 
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On principle don't pay the the £32. In practice pay up and walk away.
You've moved the goalposts a bit as it wasn't a cold call, it was a pre-renewal call.
A new contract is a new contract, you can't go around saying "look at the documentation for the previous contract".
Question - is it really an insurer or an intermediary? If it's an intermediary they may well have offered a switch of insurer for price reasons. Hence a new contract and the short period (first year) charges being imposed.
 

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