Car-free cities; the way forward?

[E53AMG]

Economy would need to cost so much more that hardly anyone would afford it. Airlines would go bust and economies would suffer....

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[markjay]

Economy would need to cost so much more that hardly anyone would afford it. Airlines would go bust and economies would suffer....

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...but the planet would be saved

 

[tbourner]

It is usually the type of people who fly business class who are the first to shout about crumbling economies. Quite funny really. Can't wait till we live on a crumbling planet with a booming economy.

 

[Dryce]

If the argument is you could squeeze more economy seats in the Business cabin that only makes sense if the plane is full. Fact is though the Business seats make the flight financially viable for the airline.

You'd think that they wouldn't bother with the low cost seats then .....

Only fly smaller airliners with with business / first seats.

The empirical evidence is that airlines find this hard to do with only a tiny insignificant fraction of services run this way.

So that would suggest that the flights are only financially viable because of the economy cabins. While premium econmoy/business/first cabins are a means of trying to increase margins.

 

[E53AMG]

You'd think that they wouldn't bother with the low cost seats then .....

Only fly smaller airliners with with business / first seats.

The empirical evidence is that airlines find this hard to do with only a tiny insignificant fraction of services run this way.

So that would suggest that the flights are only financially viable because of the economy cabins. While premium econmoy/business/first cabins are a means of trying to increase margins.

Still wouldn't work, smaller aircraft have limited range so longhaul would not be viable, both are required for these routes.

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[E53AMG]

It is usually the type of people who fly business class who are the first to shout about crumbling economies. Quite funny really. Can't wait till we live on a crumbling planet with a booming economy.

Yes Comrad, up the revolution and power to the people when all the imperialistic bourgeoisie can be forced to drive Skodas!

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[Dryce]

Still wouldn't work, smaller aircraft have limited range so longhaul would not be viable, both are required for these routes.

So if that's the case then that also affirms that it is the economy seats that are required to make the service viable?

Or alternatively - if it were viable then Boeing and Airbus would be offering aircraft of the appropriate size and range to suit the airlines offering bus/first only services because the airlines would be buying them.

 

[E53AMG]

So if that's the case then that also affirms that it is the economy seats that are required to make the service viable?

Or alternatively - if it were viable then Boeing and Airbus would be offering aircraft of the appropriate size and range to suit the airlines offering bus/first only services because the airlines would be buying them.

Both required to be profitable

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[E53AMG]

Interesting read even if it is from Daily Mail rather than the Morning Star

DOMINIC LAWSON: Why a horseshoe bat in Kent exposes the sheer folly of today's mass eco-protests | Daily Mail Online

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[markjay]

The cabin of a passanger plane is made to order (though the manufacturer makes the basic building blocks for the puzzle). Airlines can order any configuration they want.

I suspect that on some routes, Business/First subsidises Economy, on others it's the opposite, and on yet other routes they are either both profitable, or both unprofitable... I don't think there's a hard and fasr rule here.

 

[Scott_F]

Economy would need to cost so much more that hardly anyone would afford it. Airlines would go bust and economies would suffer....

...and people would have to holiday nearer home instead of undertaking unnecessary trips to soulless tourist traps two or three times a year.

 

[E53AMG]

...and people would have to holiday nearer home instead of undertaking unnecessary trips to soulless tourist traps two or three times a year.

Plenty of soul in Bali, "Island of the Gods" [emoji6]

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[Scott_F]

Plenty of soul in Bali, "Island of the Gods"

And plenty of horrid tourist traps aimed at the hordes of p1ssed-up Australians who head to the Benidorm of the East for their annual "lads on tour" jaunt.

 

[E53AMG]

And plenty of horrid tourist traps aimed at the hordes of p1ssed-up Australians who head to the Benidorm of the East for their annual "lads on tour" jaunt.

That is the South, keeps everyone away from the real totally unspoilt Bali in the North, Aussies too thick to travel. I guess it is a bit like Spain travel away from the tourist spots and you see the real Country. No tourist around here ;-)

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[Dryce]

The cabin of a passanger plane is made to order (though the manufacturer makes the basic building blocks for the puzzle). Airlines can order any configuration they want.

It's complicated - cargo can also be a factor.

Firs/bus only flights have tended to be 737/A320 family or 767s.

Economics can also vary by route. Ironically where there is an impact on choice of aircraft it's the cheap seats that drive new more efficient aircraft - and the expensive seats may keep an old tired inefficient aircraft operating on a route that it isn't suited for.

Yield management may also be easier with economy seats. Airlines tend to try and protect the equivalent of the liust prices for business but conversely will still vary (or effectively auction) the prices for the economy. Part of this is to do with interchangeability. Part of it is to protect margins and value. It also allows scope for offering corporate customers volume based discounts.

I have been surprised that we haven't seen more in the way of bus/first only flights across the Atlantic - particularly from London. There have been attempts. SilverJet and MaxJet both tried and failed. BA have their odd London City service via Ireland (32 seats on a A320). And ISTR that Lufthansa have done it (and may still).

 

[Scott_F]

That is the South, keeps everyone away from the real totally unspoilt Bali in the North, Aussies too thick to travel. I guess it is a bit like Spain travel away from the tourist spots and you see the real Country. No tourist around here ;-)

Yes I'm sure.

But be that as it may, the coming years are likely to see long haul flights taken as part of that "essential holiday experience" viewed as an unnecessary luxury that the planet can ill afford.

And that's despite the vociferous and effective lobbying of the fossil fuel and airline industries.

 

[Londonscottish]

I think this is about more than just cars - the way towns and cities are evolving means that “centres” will become pedestrianised and we’ll see more and more out-of-town shopping centres will thousands of parking spaces.

In fact, it’s happening right now...

Suits me. From where I am in London Zone 2 I don't mind having to sometimes drive outwards to visit some large retailer or other. But on the other hand I don't mind jumping on a tube to go into the West End or the City. And when I get to those places I like the ever-increasing pedestrianisation.

At the moment I'm in the City five days a week and it's literally a breath of fresh air as car use is discouraged more and more.

 

[Londonscottish]

Having said that maybe London is unique in the range of public transport options available.

Not sure how well this works in other cities with feweroptions

 

[Tramper]

Plenty of soul in Bali, "Island of the Gods" [emoji6]

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Been there, so disappointing

 

[ash59fifty-uk]

They worry about the air quality outside... yet when asbestos gets damaged internally and remediation is required how would they expect removal contractors and air monitoring analysts to come in... on bikes?

Would love to see the RAMS for a job with a waste route from a central building, on the underground and up to where the vans are parked outside of the city