Car on a single yellow line with no signage taken away by Brent Council

[sparkyspost]

My car was parked on a residential street in Dollis hill in Brent, as it has been on and off over the last year.

Towards the end of last year Nov/Dec the council added temporary single yellow lines to the street as they extended a nearby residential parking zone, with a notice that these were temporary and didn't add any signage indicating the times that the are in restriction.

I don't use my car everyday as I work from home alot, and travel by tube most of the time.

On Monday I received a parking ticket, which I only found on Tuesday evening.
I went out this evening to use the car and found it missing.
After calling the police, I had to call another company to find if they had taken it, and eventually found that they had, and then it was now in parking / tow away storage.
They took the car away this morning at 11:55 for contrevening the parking restrictions - which are not sign posted on my street - as i was parked on a single yellow line.

They now want £250 to release the car, and after 11:00 am tomorrow they will charge me £44 a day.
There was no notice to say that they were taking the car, there is no tow away signage, and now I have to find £250 to get my own car back.
I have to pay before I can appeal.

I'm looking for advice before I make my appeal, I'm planning to take photos and document my justification for my appeal.

Thanks in Advance.

Mark.
PS as you can imagine I was not impressed

 

[robert.saunders]

Were you in a CPZ? According to this basic search on the LA GIS mapping, you may not be..? Need more info really, as I don't know the area. If you were in a CPZ the entry signage would state the restriction, and I assume the contact details for tow-aways, which are also listed on Brent's web pages.

http://gis.brent.gov.uk/viewer.htm?layers=1000001

Rob

 

[recycled]

at least they should give a warning that your car is in risk of getting towed if you know you are going to change a status quo that has been like that for years.
this is absolute rubbish £250.

 

[recycled]

single yellow needs signage indicating time in use, doesn't it?
who was saying in an earlier post that in this country it is not like france where you have to pay first before appealing

 

[robert.saunders]

I think Brent is known for its strong tow-away policy? It would require signage in place - do we know that signs were not really present, or just not seen at the time?

I can only suggest arming yourself with pictures and your own views on the matter, and presenting to the council, following up with adjudication with PATAS should you need to.

Rob

 

[sparkyspost]

Thanks for the advice all.

Basically there is no signage. Its right outside where I live.

fingers crossed the open wallet surgery goes ok )

 

[glojo]

On Monday I received a parking ticket, which I only found on Tuesday evening.
I went out this evening to use the car and found it missing.

I think Monday was the time to seek action and take advice. If you leave the car in the pound then your taking a considerable financial risk and only you know if it's worth the gamble.

Have a really good look for signage because you don't want to make yourself look silly if the council come back and point out where they are.

Why are those single lines there? I'm thinking now of the social responsibility point of view, down here it is extremely difficult to get yellow lines put onto roads and there must be a justifiable reason for having them.

John

 

[crockers]

I didn't think that signs have to be posted on each street within a parking zone -- just a sign as you enter the zone - and that may be quite a few streets away from where you park... i fell foul to this in Pinner..

Now - if during the time between the painting the lines and you getting the ticket - you hadnt left the parking zone - there is no way that you could have seen the signs coming into the zone............if that makes sense...

 

[robert.saunders]

A few interesting cases, for those bored:

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/Cukier-v-Barnet.doc

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/BURROWS.pdf

 

[Dave Lewis]

I had a successful appeal a few years ago in Southwark. I parked outside Kings College Hospital to see a badly injured friend who had just been mown down on her bicycle. There were no yellow lines at all, as the road had just been re-surfaced. There were signs however. I emerged from the hospital to find the car being towed away. The warden, still there, was unsympathetic, so I had to get a taxi and follow my car to the pound at Vauxhall to redeem it for £120. However, along with the ticket, I was given a leaflet explaining that parking restrictions were clearly indicated by signs AND yellow lines painted on the road. I went back to Denmark Hill, took photos of the spot where I parked, clearly showing an absence of yellow lines. Sent the photos to the police, and received a cheque for £120 plus an apology from the Chief Constable in the post the following week. No taxi fare though

 

[fuzzer]

A few interesting cases, for those bored:

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/Cukier-v-Barnet.doc

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/BURROWS.pdf

i like the burrows case with the physic powers comment

 

[comports]

Am I wrong here or are there conflicting pieces of info regarding right to park..?

Burrows case states - First para on page 4

Although the Borough says he is not entitled to do this. it
seems to me that there is no authority to suggest that a motorist who parks his vehicle
normally in a residential street is automatically guilty of causing an unnecessary obstruction
or any other offence; and so to say he is not “entitled” to park in the sense that it suggests that
parking on the highway is ipso facto illegal may be misleading.​

But Glojo found this on post#44 of this thread

The public highway can consist of a carriageway, footpath, pavement and grassed verge and in law nobody has any right to do anything on the highway except to pass and repass (i.e. to travel along the road or footway). Parking on the highway, however wide, is an obstruction, even if there are no waiting restrictions and no yellow lines and anyone causing an obstruction can be subject to the appropriate penalties for that specific offence.In reality, such are the demands of modern life that on street parking on most roads is condoned where the degree of obstruction is relatively small.

I assume there is no definative answer and ambiguos outcomes depending on the case.

Surely the correct way to handle these instances (if proof of being away at the time and legally parked etc...) would be to remove the vehicle IF it will cause obstruction for the duration of the restriction but allow it to be collected at no cost to the owner. If the second quote above is correct then the owner should be aware that he does not have rights to park there but is normally allowed to..?

Albeit a pain in the a**se, I suspect it's the high cost of release from the pound that is the main issue and not the fact that the car needs to be collected.

 

[recycled]

Talk about asda moaning about people parking on mother and child spaces and that they are going to start issuing tickets .
just seen one of their staff arrive for work and parked straight in the mother and child space and has just gone off to work.
What cheek.

 

[glojo]

Am I wrong here or are there conflicting pieces of info regarding right to park..?

But Glojo found this on post#44 of this thread.

Regarding my post then the offence will be causing an unnecessary obstruction, whereas we are talking of parking on a single yellow line which might have a different causation. Far be it for me to suggest that the authorities altered how they prosecute and consider using the plain and simple unnecessary obstruction legislation for all the offences and just use the markings to indicate the degree of enforcement. ie You WILL be prosecuted between the following times but you MIGHT be prosecuted outside of the published restrictions. Same causation for all parking offences unless they are more serious.

As far as the law is concerned the only legal place to park on a public highway, is on an authorised parking place, but if marking and signage are incorrect then the offender will walk. (unless they took up my suggestion )

John the kill-joy

 

[miro]

In Australia signage is everything and the yellow line is a sign also.

Time to check the road rules or similar. I bet that the yellow line means clearway.

You could argue that the cost is unreasonable and that a privately contracted towing service quoted you X, Y, Z for the same service. A typical fine for parking without metering is P

If X is the largest quote then FINE - X - P = 0 if not then you have a right to declare an indecent profit, an indecent demand for funds. In other words, Blackmail. That is illegal and you can charge them back the cost of renting a car to arrange the funds for releasing your car.

THe other thing is that you can find out through legal discovery what the council pays for the towing service. If the costs are not appropriate then you can have them thrown out.