car registration documents scam?

[moonloops]

So far the only risk I can see is that my car would be cloned. Which is just the same as if someone puts my number plate on their car, except this guy is in Malta (I will call him there to check!) and I can't see me getting Maltese speeding tickets.

Thanks

Unless of course his mate is in Bradford and that's where the cloning is going to be done

 

[gIzzE]

The payment can be recalled if it is a hacked account, up to 36 months later.

Just a heads up.

 

[swami]

The payment can be recalled if it is a hacked account, up to 36 months later.

Just a heads up.

Interesting, how did you find out, have you seen that somewhere that I could look at? I don't doubt you, it's just I've not managed to find anything saying money can be recalled.

My bank were pretty unequivocal that there is no way the money could be recalled without my authority, I made the operator check with her manager too who said the same, and this was the 'international desk' and not just someone dealing with every banking aspect.

It might be worth a follow up call to see if that has ever happened and what the result was.

Thanks

 

[swami]

Unless of course his mate is in Bradford and that's where the cloning is going to be done

Given our number plates and VIN numbers are on display to the public, I would surely be more likely to have those copied from my car now (especially when I live within 10 miles of the place!) than by someone posing to be from Malta, answering a Maltese phone number?

 

[gIzzE]

Interesting, how did you find out, have you seen that somewhere that I could look at? I don't doubt you, it's just I've not managed to find anything saying money can be recalled.

My bank were pretty unequivocal that there is no way the money could be recalled without my authority, I made the operator check with her manager too who said the same, and this was the 'international desk' and not just someone dealing with every banking aspect.

It might be worth a follow up call to see if that has ever happened and what the result was.

Thanks

Under normal circumstances it can not be recalled, however, if the account that the person paid you from was hacked, then the funds would be recalled.

This was NatWest that told me, someone bought a Meridian surround processor from me and they payed me this way, it was then that they told me that the only time funds could be recovered is if they were paid for using someone else's account.

Ask them about that specifically.

 

[bolide]

The payment can be recalled if it is a hacked account, up to 36 months later.

If that were the case I would think there would be no international commerce via Swift and the service would have ceased to exist

 

[gIzzE]

It is the case.

Your bank can not take the funds from your account without asking, the only time they may do this however is if the transaction was fraudulent.
The bank who sent the funds will still have to ask the receiving bank to return the money, but when it is fraud they will do more times than not.
If you do not agree to let the funds be returned you are then part of the fraud, or looked at very closely.
Quickly yanking fraudulent money out of an account is not looked at too kindly.


It is very, very rare, but many big companies often get their bank to underwrite large transfers, so they become liable if anything happens, they tend to look at the sender a little closer then.

 

[mcevoyd]

Nurple - I just registered today to try to resurrect this thread!

He says he needs the copy of the V5 to satisfy his bank that the payment is not money laundering and to let it through. Now I'm not sure about this- my first thought was that it'd be better if the bank contacted me, but he has rejected that and frankly I could never see my bank being that flexible either.

From my experience the Banks' money laundering checks usually focus on the origin of funds coming in and not the money going out.

 

[swami]

It is the case.

Your bank can not take the funds from your account without asking, the only time they may do this however is if the transaction was fraudulent.
The bank who sent the funds will still have to ask the receiving bank to return the money, but when it is fraud they will do more times than not.
If you do not agree to let the funds be returned you are then part of the fraud, or looked at very closely.
Quickly yanking fraudulent money out of an account is not looked at too kindly.

Appreciate the input, I'd best put this to them. They are on a recorded call telling me that there is no way a Swift payment could be recalled though, so I'd hope that would give me some security, and at the very least would be a good basis for me to refuse any return of the money if the worst should happen and I got a say.

I have thought about yanking the money out! Seems to be one of the first things people suggest when there's a hint of doubt about the transaction, so I'd hope that would be seen as me being suspicious and wary rather than guilty fraudster!

 

[swami]

From my experience the Banks' money laundering checks usually focus on the origin of funds coming in and not the money going out.

Agreed, we look at source of funds here, but I've not begun to try and find out if this was a proper rule in Malta.

It's the last thing that's preying on my mind to be honest. I have spoken to someone on another forum from Malta who confirmed that the establishment exists, and I looked at the buyer's eBay feedback and found a Brit who sold him a car before, sent him a message and the gent told me that the transaction went through fine, so I am more at ease about it.

Maybe he didn't want to say outright that he wants to see proof that I own the car I'm selling and thought it better to make it sound official? Obviously I'm in danger of being blinded by the dollar signs though!

I will still blank something out on the V5 I think, although there is nothing on there that I wouldn't give a prospective buyer in the UK as even the V5 doc number is needed for HPI guarantees.

 

[markjay]

Removing funds from the account does not really provide protection against fraud.

In the event that the bank is entitled to reverse the transaction due to fraud (and I am not referring specifically to SWIFT payment), they will make the account overdrawn and chase you for the 'debt'.

 

[gIzzE]

Removing funds from the account does not really provide protection against fraud.

In the event that the bank is entitled to reverse the transaction due to fraud (and I am not referring specifically to SWIFT payment), they will make the account overdrawn and chase you for the 'debt'.

Exactly, pulling money straight out of an account will just make you look like you were either in on it, or thought it was fraudulent money in the first place.

They will come after you for it either way, so may as well just leave it in there and let them have it.


At the end of the day use your instinct.
Make sure it has been paid by Swift and get the buyer to send you some proof of who they are, so you can verify with the bank the name and address you have ID for matches the account the payment came from.

You just need to ask the buyer a few things that are very easy to do if they're genuine and a bit of a ball ache if they are not.

 

[Matt's Dad]

I don't know relevant or helpful, but I've had quite a bit of interest from people in France and Spain for a couple of bikes I was selling - I found out that there was some sort of change to their registration process and vehicles with foreign/British plates can no longer be used and have their version of MOT - I don't really know for sure but one guy was quite honest and aksed if he could just buy my V5, as he was going to use my V5 and VIN number on his bike??!!

Also I am selling an American 4x4 and have had similar questions from people in Latvia/Poland etc - One guy was meant to come and collect the car and was paying cash, he turned up (after I'd had the car cleaned and taken my private plates off) only to say he didn't have the cash, but would have in a few days, but could he take the V5 with him - Obviously I said no, I didn't mind them having the Reg and VIN, as like has been said anyone can get that info, but I didn't want them having the V5 number/code or the barcode.

 

[swami]

In case anyone googles the subject and lands on this thread like I did, I'll just update on what I've been told by my bank.

In the case of the sender of a Swift, they can't just recall the money without the recipient's consent.

If the money was sent from a hacked account, the legitimate owner of the sending account is likely to be reimbursed by their bank. I understand there's an insurance banks have that covers that. If the sending bank is suspicious, they could contact the recipient's bank who might want to satisfy themselves that the recipient was acting in good faith. I am told in my case (Santander) that the recipient would receive a letter on the subject and may be asked to provide backup of what the payment was for. No money is automatically deducted.

This is similar to my other concern which was in case the funds used to pay me were the proceeds of crime. Again, I'd probably be asked to explain my part, and if I could satisfy them that I was acting in good faith. No money is deducted immediately, the letter and investigation comes first.

Although nothing could be specified as to what would constitute enough proof that I was acting in good faith, the message I got was that I would likely keep the money in both of these scenarios being no party to the crime.

In the case of the V5 being sent to the buyer, hiding numbers in the certificate number and part of the bar code is probably the best precaution, but even then I don't see any specific risk and the DVLA couldn't give me one either.

The VIN and address seem the most personal things on there, but as I'd give that to anyone then I see no issue in letting that out. If the deal went ahead and I'd sent that out and the buyer disappeared, I'd alert the authorities.

Thanks to everyone on here for the comments and suggestions