Car Tax proposal buried in the budget.

[st13phil]

Having worked in the R&D department of one of the oil majors, I know first hand that they do try other approaches spending millions of dollars in the process and indeed had for decades before I was involved. Unfortunately often as not the economics just don't work so the initiative goes on the shelf.

What many who choose to demonise the oil companies ignore is that for many decades they have devoted huge resources to R&D regarding alternative sources of energy and its distribution because - oddly enough - they're smart enough to know that they are exhausting sources of hydrocarbons faster than they're being replenished. And some of the fruits of those R&D projects which stalled due to economic factors will undoubtedly prove useful in the future. Research results are never "forgotten".

The irony that today's oil companies will likely provide solutions to mankind's future need for energy is both rich and totally lost on the loony eco-warrior fraternity.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

And the large oil companies have paid for a lot of pensions....

 

[GeeJayW]

And the large oil companies have paid for a lot of pensions....

I hope that continues..., at least for the next few decades or so.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

I hope that continues..., at least for the next few decades or so.

I also hope that they’ll see my career out - I work in exploration!

 

[Benzmanc]

Whoop whoop for you...

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit...

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit...

Bragging is lower...

 

[Lennox]

Bragging is lower...

Jealousy is worse [emoji12]

And I'm definitely jealous of my mates Tesla 3, he's as quick as my AMG A35 with minimal running costs. Yeah I can pop and bang all the way to Edinburgh in the morning but it costs. If I watch the right foot, I would probably be better in the Tesla 3 performance I nearly ordered. So maybe next time.


Re the oil giants, agree there is some good going on, but I worry that as stated before, it's all short term shareholder value based business cases, not focused on longer term, humanitarian endeavors to design a non carbon based sustainable power system that lowers everyone's costs; whilst securing our planets future. I'm not an Eco warrior but living in a large modern house with two young kids, I want cheaper power and if possible, to help improve their and our planets (hopefully more than one) future.

Something like this...
Radical hydrogen-boron reactor leapfrogs current nuclear fusion tech

 

[GeeJayW]

Jealousy is worse [emoji12]

And I'm definitely jealous of my mates Tesla 3, he's as quick as my AMG A35 with minimal running costs. Yeah I can pop and bang all the way to Edinburgh in the morning but it costs. If I watch the right foot, I would probably be better in the Tesla 3 performance I nearly ordered. So maybe next time.


Re the oil giants, agree there is some good going on, but I worry that as stated before, it's all short term shareholder value based business cases, not focused on longer term, humanitarian endeavors to design a non carbon based sustainable power system that lowers everyone's costs; whilst securing our planets future. I'm not an Eco warrior but living in a large modern house with two young kids, I want cheaper power and if possible, to help improve their and our planets (hopefully more than one) future.

Something like this...
Radical hydrogen-boron reactor leapfrogs current nuclear fusion tech

The oil companies are probably at least as aware as anyone else on the need for long-term energy solutions. They will otherwise go out of business. As mentioned earlier, research results don't evaporate but their value and viability varies depending on the prevailing conditions.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Jealousy is worse [emoji12]

And I'm definitely jealous of my mates Tesla 3, he's as quick as my AMG A35 with minimal running costs. Yeah I can pop and bang all the way to Edinburgh in the morning but it costs. If I watch the right foot, I would probably be better in the Tesla 3 performance I nearly ordered. So maybe next time.


Re the oil giants, agree there is some good going on, but I worry that as stated before, it's all short term shareholder value based business cases, not focused on longer term, humanitarian endeavors to design a non carbon based sustainable power system that lowers everyone's costs; whilst securing our planets future. I'm not an Eco warrior but living in a large modern house with two young kids, I want cheaper power and if possible, to help improve their and our planets (hopefully more than one) future.

Something like this...
Radical hydrogen-boron reactor leapfrogs current nuclear fusion tech

Why on earth would i be jealous of someone driving an oversized Scalextric car?

 

[Lennox]

The oil companies are probably at least as aware as anyone else on the need for long-term energy solutions. They will otherwise go out of business. As mentioned earlier, research results don't evaporate but their value and viability varies depending on the prevailing conditions.

I hope you are right. But they have had 50 well funded years to do so. Me Joe Public have seen nothing of it.

 

[GeeJayW]

I hope you are right. But they have had 50 well funded years to do so. Me Joe Public have seen nothing of it.

They've been doing R&D a lot longer than 50-years. The company I worked for has several global research laboratories with thousands of scientists, engineers, technicians and so on focused on technologies right across the energy space. Some of the new discoveries and initiatives make sense and are deployed one way or another. Others simply aren't viable for an array of reasons and are shelved. If the oil majors had a silver bullet for future (transport) energy provision, they'd be all over it.

FWIW, I honestly don't think there will be a future transport energy solution that will be as universally applicable or as convenient as oil. EVs for example will work great for most of the UK, but not everywhere and not for everyone. Further, making and operating EVs impacts on the 'big picture' environment in much the same way as conventional ICEVs, but in other areas. Stop digging for oil and start digging for Lithium or Cobalt or.... Get rid of conventional power-stations and construct nuclear power-stations (concrete, steel, nuclear fuel production, managing irradiated waste, managing operational safety... and so on). Maybe, cleaner power generation will be developed, but I doubt it. Scaling up wind, waves, solar and so on is a tough gig if ever there was one. Hydro brings it's own environmental impacts in the form of concrete for dam building, methane produced from flooded areas and so on... Hydrogen may be useful (We built a pilot plant in a country that had access to geothermal energy for hydrogen production. Might be solution there one day, but not just yet).

In more remote areas here and abroad, even with all of the political and environmental focus, it's very difficult to see anything replacing hydrocarbon fuels across the board in the near future.

As for Joe Public, most can't see further than the filler cap or how many pence/litre they have to pay. I don't know about you.

 

[Bellow]

In more remote areas here and abroad, even with all of the political and environmental focus, it's very difficult to see anything replacing hydrocarbon fuels across the board in the near future.
.

But the engines to burn the hydrocarbons in are being legislated out of existence.

 

[rockits]

If you can afford a £100k plus car you can afford to pay more VED

Bit of a generalisation and sweeping statement though. In the main you might be right but many car enthusiasts have saved and sacrificed a great deal to afford a car of their dreams. They might not be rich so to tax it this way seems a little blasé.

 

[GeeJayW]

But the engines to burn the hydrocarbons in are being legislated out of existence.

Yes maybe so.

It's a political initiative though and maybe one that's needed to force change where change is appropriate. In the UK for example and perhaps other developed countries, the ICE is targeted as something to be eradicated and currently EVs are perhaps seen as the best viable alternative.

In developing countries and remote areas, what the heck does one replace the ICE with?

 

[Bellow]

Yes maybe so.

It's a political initiative though and maybe one that's needed to force change where change is appropriate. In the UK for example and perhaps other developed countries, the ICE is targeted as something to be eradicated and currently EVs are perhaps seen as the best viable alternative.

Agreed. Even as a stop gap to improve local air quality, is LPG worth a look? Isn't it devoid of particulates and UBHC (especially the latter as no cold enrichment is required once started)?

In developing countries and remote areas, what the heck does one replace the ICE with?

But (assuming we are talking about hand-me-downs here)which of the ICE cars are of use without the supporting dealer networks and their monopolised computer diagnostic/coding systems. W123s will run forever - current E-Class?

 

[m80]

Yes maybe so.

It's a political initiative though and maybe one that's needed to force change where change is appropriate. In the UK for example and perhaps other developed countries, the ICE is targeted as something to be eradicated and currently EVs are perhaps seen as the best viable alternative.

In developing countries and remote areas, what the heck does one replace the ICE with?

Can I replace the word developed with tax hungry?

 

[GeeJayW]

Agreed. Even as a stop gap to improve local air quality, is LPG worth a look? Isn't it devoid of particulates and UBHC (especially the latter as no cold enrichment is required once started)?

But (assuming we are talking about hand-me-downs here)which of the ICE cars are of use without the supporting dealer networks and their monopolised computer diagnostic/coding systems. W123s will run forever - current E-Class?

Well, diesels make very little UBHC (unburned hydrocarbons) similarly, catalyst equipped gasoline cars. As for particulates from LPG. Short answer is I don't know exactly. Slightly longer answer is they emit few particulates that are big enough to reflect light in the visible spectrum, but I don't know about PM2.5 and smaller. In other words what are typical particle numbers for LPG. Also the LPG has to come from somewhere, so the oil industry can't be killed off just yet I guess. In addition, what happens to the rest of the 'barrel' that can't be used for LPG? There are other challenges too, e.g. scaling up LPG provision and converting/building LPG vehicles.

Yes the choices about which engines are the most viable to use out 'in the wild' are not the easiest. Going back to when I could set the spark timing using a fag-paper doesn't get to the most reliable engines. Yes they could be 'mended' by someone with reasonable technical skills, but they were nowhere near as reliable as current engines, which need computers to operate and another to analyse. Will need to get to somewhere in the middle.

Finding viable solutions to all of this of course has been and continues to be a significantly difficult problem area to solve. If it was easy, a clear vision of what to move onto would have emerged. My own view is that energy provision and transport solutions will become much more fragmented in the future than they are now. I think there will be continuing need for an oil industry long in the future. What that will look like is up for grabs. It won't/can't stay the way it is now, but it will need to be big enough to work. Other energy solutions will emerge and take root, surviving in markets/environments where they are a good fit.

 

[GeeJayW]

Can I replace the word developed with tax hungry?

If it pleases you to do so....

 

[Alfie]

If you have to pay £2135 a year for road tax, you would def be better off not buying road tax and accept the fine for not having it IF caught!

Except all the prosecutions Ive seen, they also get hit for the back tax right up to the date it was last taxed.

 

[Alfie]

I think at present the fine is in addition to any back tax due, although I do laugh at the 'Police Car Chase' programmes where a yoof gets done for no insurance, which would cost a couple of grand, and is fine sixty quid. Now those odds are worth taking if you're of that mentality.

No insurance attracts a mandatory six points on the licence. The fine is means tested.
Trying to get insurance when you have a conviction for no insurance will hit very hard. Do it twice and it’s a ban. Driving whilst disqualified starts with an increased ban and further fine. Then it’s prison.