Car values gone mad?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MOR8A, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. MOR8A

    MOR8A Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    621
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Location:
    Sussex
    Car:
    W212 E63 PPP AMG
    Sorry if this has already been covered....what the hell is going on with these prices? There are going to be a fair few people who could potentially catch a very big cold on these at some point.

    RM Sotheby's London results | PistonHeads
     
  2. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    27,190
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Perth, Scotland
    Car:
    W204 C200CDI Estate
    This falls squarely in the " if you have to ask the price you can't afford it territory" I imagine these sums are petty cash to many of the buyers
     
  3. Rosso1

    Rosso1 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    333
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2016
    Location:
    Essex
    Car:
    SL500
    But some people will think they are buying a investment
     
  4. rifiki

    rifiki Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    367
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Car:
    clk 280 Ponton 190
    Yes, I suppose it's loose change to some people.
     
  5. John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,621
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2013
    Location:
    London & Dublin
    Car:
    Mazda MX5 10AE, W201 2.5-16, W202 230K Sport man, Honda Accord & Suzuki 'Ricer'.
    No doubt about that. Also the classic car market is not the market of the 80's when people were gobsmacked at Ferrari Dino's going for £150k which bottomed out in the 90's at 30k! Asia inparticular by all accounts has had a major impact and of course deposit returns generally are on the floor.

    Anyway, if the market does go all **** up I dare say the vast majority of buyers won't be affected in the slightest and if they are happy to play a long term strategy they may come out ahead while having owned their dream car/s.


    Good luck to all those lucky buyers I say slightly begrudgingly. :( :D
     
  6. def90cars

    def90cars Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,528
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    Location:
    Derby
    Car:
    S205 AMG C63S, W204 C63 AMG PPP, Abarth 595 Competizione, Fiat 500 Twinair, Toyota Carina E GTi
    They mention a collection of AMGs and put a photo of a McLaren! Doh!
     
  7. Red C220

    Red C220 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,197
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    2015 SL400 : 2017 S6 Avant
    There are a couple of reasons classic car prices have shot up.

    Main reason number one - Historically low interest rates, so once you've filled up your ISA'a Pep's and SIPS and any other acronyms you care to think of the alternatives are the stock market, property or, well classic cars.

    Main reason number two - there is no capital gains tax on classic cars, or stamp duty, or lots of other duties that apply to various other investments. But you have to store them and service them and insure them.

    Think of it like buying an expensive work of art, but you can drive and enjoy it.

    Personally I think the market is overvalued, but I don't think it's any more absurd than the South East/London Property market at present.
     
  8. Dryce

    Dryce MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    6,974
    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Car:
    ..
    And number three - a new generation of buyers and speculators who have no memory of the last bubble in this market.

    ISTR that the capital gains or tax on profit didn't apply as long as you were not counted as being a trader - so as long as you didn't trade more than 5 cars a year?
     
  9. OP
    OP
    MOR8A

    MOR8A Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    621
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Location:
    Sussex
    Car:
    W212 E63 PPP AMG
    Yes gents I understand all the ''make some money tax free'' and ''interest rates are low'' stuff, but (and I should have said initially) my point is that these machines imho just are not ''worth'' anywhere near these crazy figures. It just seems absurd that people will value and pay such huge figures for some things that were not that great to start with and arguably worthless by comparison to what is available today. I understand that older cars have more ''character'' etc, but really! I think the bubble will burst.
     
  10. TheFoX

    TheFoX Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    925
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Location:
    The Fenlands
    Car:
    CLS 350 CDI Sport
    I think that we have all been conditioned to think that older means more cherished. Now I'm a fan of the Motor Museum at Beaulieu and love looking around their relics, and I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at taking a few of them for a test drive, but would I really want to live with some of those old fossils on a daily basis.

    It's like Sharon Stone. Beautiful in her day, but she is beginning to show her age, and there are newer younger models available. That goes for us blokes as well. No longer am I a catch, what with losing my hair and gaining several stone around the midriff.

    The fact is that while we have some nostalgia towards vehicles of yesteryear, modern vehicles are so much more advanced.

    My early motoring days were the eighties, where the king of the road was the Sierra Sapphire Cosworth, and ordinary people aspired to cars such as the Escort RS Turbo, or the XR3i (orXR2i). These cars were considered fast by the virtue that they hit 60mph in under 9 seconds.

    Move on thirty odd years, and what have we got. Merc diesels hitting 60 in around 6 to 7 seconds, an Astra VXR that pumps out more BHP than classic Ferraris and a range of BMW M's and Merc AMG's that have acceleration figures traditionally attributed to motorbikes. Add to this that cars are now twice the weight of their eighties counterparts, that is some achievement.

    Now as to whether modern cars have souls, of course they do. It is what we make of those souls that count. I love my CLS, as do others on this forum. This also goes for C Classes, E Classes, A Classes, and every other class on this forum, regardless of whether the car is a recent build or donkeys years old.

    Just think, in fifty years time, someone might desire my CLS, if it is still around.
     
  11. ivan1983

    ivan1983 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    458
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Location:
    Middlesex
    Car:
    R129 500SL, W140 S500L, R170 230K, 530i Touring, ZZR 600 W126 380SEL now gone :-(
    I was at a classic car show in Alexandra Palace last year (It was more like a dealer show though) And they were interviewing someone from one of the big auction houses and they said a lot of it has to do with investment from China and the like. They have a lot of disposable cash and are being guided by people in the industry....
     
  12. neilrr

    neilrr MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    6,313
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Car:
    Various.
    "They have a lot of disposable cash and are being guided exploited by people in the industry...."
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  13. Stratman

    Stratman Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,610
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Location:
    Sunbury
    Car:
    W203 C200 CDI '04Estate
  14. roastbeef

    roastbeef Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    166
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Car:
    mercedes190e w124s
    Yes 80's and 90's fords have gone completely mad and I'm sure the bubble will burst ,earlier fords like mk1 escorts and cortina's of the sporting models have been very strong for a while now
     
  15. Fastard

    Fastard New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Car:
    SL55 AMG
    I sold a 993 C2 just before the values started going up and a Renault 5GT Turbo for buttons. Presumably when I sell my SL 55 that'll be the signal for them to start increasing in value too.
     
  16. Red C220

    Red C220 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,197
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    2015 SL400 : 2017 S6 Avant
    There are currently bubbles everywhere.

    The Australian property market is now the biggest bubble in property history anywhere.

    Classic cars are daft money.

    Two bed houses in Surrey are £600K.

    And last night I watched The Big Short again as it's so entertaining and pertinent.

    The only question is not if it will burst but when? That's the $64 Billion question that all the shorters need to know.

    So whats the next trigger? There's always a trigger...
     
  17. Red C220

    Red C220 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,197
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    2015 SL400 : 2017 S6 Avant
    China isn't in good shape right now. It's currency is massively overvalued as it's historically controlled exchange rates from central Govt. (to the tune of 60% overvalued).

    It was planning to float the Yuan on world FX markets in London, but then we voted to leave the EU so that was quickly put on hold.

    China's banks are currently undercapitalised to the tune of about 10x.

    Maybe that'll be the next trigger. You can't have year on year double digit growth in an economy without a dip, that's the basic law of economics/capitlism.

    Quite ironic for a communist country.

    One could suggest the Chinese elite are getting as much capital out of the country before it all goes mammaries up. So the cost of property is less relevant if you're trying get some Millions/Billions out of an economy that's about to go massively pear shaped. It's Chinese Money that's been fuelling the property market growth in Aus and Canada as well as London.

    That could be the answer. The smart money is being moved out of the country before the next global financial event.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  18. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    23,777
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Location:
    London
    Car:
    W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
    :thumb:
     
  19. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    23,777
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Location:
    London
    Car:
    W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
    A friend bought a Lancia Delta Integrale 8V a couple of years ago, paid top money for it at the time, and says he didn't think he'll turn a profit so perplexed as to why inexplicably it doubled in value since.
     
  20. Calcifer

    Calcifer Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    190
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Location:
    UK, Hong Kong, Japan
    Car:
    R107 500SL, W124 E500 LTD, W124 AMG, W211 E55, E30 M3, CSL, Z3M, 355, 550, 360 CS, 964, NSX, RX-7
    The Ferrari bubble has burst at the moment. Last year, my 550M was worth 30% more than now. Brexit hasn't helped much.
     
Tags:

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.