Cars Too Complex For Their Own Good?

[mattc]

Complex = expensive. Look at software - how many of us use even 10% of what MS Office is capable of? Look at phones. we 'play' with certain functions but really we just text and call.

I am going to keep my 124 on the road because its relatively uncomplicated, looks great and goes well enough for me. I value the engineering values that developed the car - not the elastic trickery that Clarksons bemoaned on the M5 last night!

 

[glojo]

"If you could park OK five years ago, how come you can't live without Parking Sensors today?"

I hate central heating and love to see an open fire, but when selling a house without central heating or double glazing then you can expect to be penalised.

Electric windows in cars or air conditioning might still be options and some folks might not want them but business will cater for the majority. The majority of folks like electric windows and no doubt the same applies to air conditioning. We may disagree but are we the majority?

Incidentally my wife reverses our Sprinter into extremely confined places without the aid of any electronic aids, but I do like the electronic gadgets in our cars.

John

 

[glojo]

PS: I haven't slept for several days, so I'm in the mood for a fight

Welcome to my world.

Regards
John

 

[mattc]

You are right glojo,

we are in the minority - why else would we spend the time on this forum. Most people treat cars as white goods these days. how it works is irrelevant (until it starts costing fortune to plug in and repair-if you are lucky!)

 

[imadoofus]

We even had over riders so when you braked when parking the front of the car went down and the over riders went behind the bumper of the car in front and you were stuck

And overriders were, more often than not, optional extras; so this over-complication thing, leading to costly problems is nothing new...

 

[television]

And overriders were, more often than not, optional extras; so this over-complication thing, leading to costly problems is nothing new...

I had forgotten that bit that over riders were an extra they were fitted with just one bolt that had a square hole, and when you tried to undo the bolt the head would just go round and round

 

[Satch]

"If you could park OK five years ago, how come you can't live without Parking Sensors today?"

A good question:

"Prices for the hatchback remain largely unchanged. The only increase is to the Sport model of £150 which now includes rear parking sensors, automatic lights and rain sensing wipers as standard."

Yes, Nissan Micra drivers really need those rear parking sensors

 

[hawk20]

Has she had it from new? any flood damage that you know of? maybe its time to trade it in!

Yes; she has had it from new and always serviced at her local MINI dealer. Definitely no flood damage.

 

[hawk20]

Sorry to tell you this but your daughter needs to develop a bit more common sense. £150 to change a battery? £1000 for an ABS sensor - I thought ABS sensors were little metal discs with holes in them.

Shes been had.

I really don't think that is fair. We cannot all be experts on everything and nor do we want to. If my TV goes wrong, I do not expect to have to know how it works. I get my local firm in to fix it, who I have learned to trust.

Most people who buy and use computers could not design a single component in them nor follow the complexites of how they work. We all have to rely on experts for many many things, including our health.

 

[Benzowner]

How many base model cars do we have then?

If cars are getting overly elaborate with electrics, which in principal I agree with, how many of us are driving the Classic model? Not many I would venture, we probably have the Elegance or Avantgarde with the extra bits, as the Wurzels would say "Makes I laff"

 

[television]

I think that the problem is more "Why do not garages employ some good electronic engineers"

Electronics and engineering is miles apart, you either love electronics or you hate them. Nothing moves, nothing happens even if you stare at the things all day long nothing will happen.

With a glut of TV engineers now redundant some of these guys could have been trained up for car work, its all old hat to us, apart from that if your basic understanding is sound, just looking at the application or diagram one soon knows how it works.

I would have thought that a chain with several outlets could have employed one guy who knows what he is doing, to visit different workshops on different day to sort the piggy jobs out.

One outlet use the customer and me on a forum to sort out his Distronic when it malfunctioned as the poor guy did not have a clue, we did it though.

I remember the words of an MB engineer, " I did not want to be an electronic engineer,but I have no choice" and this is one trade where you grasp whats going on or you do not understand a thing.

Ask someone what a resistor does, and you will not get the right answer, the same goes for a capacitor, try it on here if you like, just say what you think they do and the reason.

 

[Ade B]

Until they enable cars to link up to your laptop via wi-fi and a lay person interface, people are always going to charge a premium for 'expert' advice.

Wait a minute... think there is an opening there....

I said it first.

Ade

 

[Howard]

If cars are getting overly elaborate with electrics, which in principal I agree with, how many of us are driving the Classic model? Not many I would venture, we probably have the Elegance or Avantgarde with the extra bits, as the Wurzels would say "Makes I laff"

I would say mine is pretty poverty spec .... no air con for example ...

Not many extra switches on my dash , thats for sure ....

Heated Rear Screen , Headrest drop , Hazards , thats about it ...

 

[television]

Until they enable cars to link up to your laptop via wi-fi and a lay person interface, people are always going to charge a premium for 'expert' advice.

Wait a minute... think there is an opening there....

I said it first.

Ade

And you can go to their Ade

 

[Ade B]

Ask someone what a resistor does, and you will not get the right answer, the same goes for a capacitor, try it on here if you like, just say what you think they do and the reason.

From my A level physics (a long while back..)

A resistor reduces conductivity according to Ohms Law
A capacitor stores charge between metal plates

can't remember how they work, doesn't come up much in my line of work these days..

Ade

 

[Rose Chap]

Without wishing to be rude to anyone, generally the type of people who complain that cars are too complicated now are those who formerly used to know how they work but hasn't kept their knowledge up to date.

If you were a designer of electro-mechanical systems the concepts and functions of a modern car would be easily understood I'm sure.

I've always known how a four stroke engine works, and understand the principles behind a supercharger. However, fixing a 1920s Bentley Blower is as beyond me as fixing my CLK Kompressor.

Technology will leave you behind unless you keep up to date with it.

 

[glojo]

I wonder whether it is cheaper to throw away broken electrical parts rather than fix them, I cannot recall a computer shop actually repairing a faulty part?

Regards
John

 

[hawk20]

One problem seems to me to be that manufacturers are fitting goodies (which we all want because they are lovely when they are working) -fitting them before they have the diagnostic equipment to find the multitude of faults that can occur as all the systems inter-react. Of course my daughter wants ABS brakes a speedo an odometer and a trip meter. And more. But the fact that their diagnostic equipment cannot tell them whether the fault is a failing battery, or ABS sensors or uncle Tom Cobley and all makes finding and repairing this fault a complete nightmare. And what are you supposed to say to a Service Manager who says " I'm sorry. I really have no idea what is causing the problems. And nor do the people at the factory"

 

[television]

I wonder whether it is cheaper to throw away broken electrical parts rather than fix them, I cannot recall a computer shop actually repairing a faulty part?

Regards
John

Computer panels do not cost much as they are made in their 100 of thousands the most expensive only costing a few £
MB can charge up to almost £2k for some of their bits.

I work down to component level and I give myself 10 mins to think if I am going to fix or throw, when you fix one it does not need to be reprogrammed.

To replace certain ones and you have to allow for complete re programming so not always the cheaper option, the other thing is speed of the repair, if I can change the faulty component then it is off the bench within a short time.
Knowing why that component has failed is most of the battle, failure to understand that and the new one will go the same way

 

[hawk20]

Any idea what is causing my daughter's car symptoms, Malcolm? Or anyone? Help!