CAZ, ULEZ General Whinge.

m80

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Mrs Me has a Honda Civic 1.8 petrol 2012 registered. One reason for buying it was to avoid TFL charges (not congestion but the thought of driving in there is a deterrent enough, the tube wins).

So the vehicle checker comes back as the penalty being applicable.
I message and a couple of days on, as it's on a personal plate they want the earlier V5 and the present V5 to compare the VIN and check the vehicle for exemption. Fair enough but when a new V5 arrives we are instructed to destroy any previous V5's.
It also makes a mockery of automatic systems that are there to avoid additional human involvement.

As the DVLA systems seemed to fail last year when we bought the Civic, fortunately I have kept all DVLA documentation.
Instructed by TFL to use their online system to download the V5's after it allowed for the message and the downloads (slow to load) it then rejects all as the page isn't recognised or is old and updated or summat, ffs it gets a bit ott this (not) automated stuff. I've attached them to an email in hope.

So while prattling about I considered the Bristol CAZ, that is wanting us to scrap diesels and buy petrol's, I thought.
They seem to use a common checker, that includes 3 cities but not Bristol, yet, it's coming. After delays due to some screw up I believe they're active with their penalty system now, aren't they? Just not with their checker.
But this
would seem to indicate that petrol mo mo's get a £9 penalty also.

I suppose all these charges, challenges to charges, and appeals are going to keep people in work. I'm just glad I haven't visited these places in the Civic believing no charge will be levied.

I hope the other 14 locations ( and possibly more by now) are doing better with their application of attacking the correct motorists, but I doubt it.
 

Tuercas viejas

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Well sitting over on this side of the pond & reading that if nothing else its a creative way in stealth taxation , & creating a strong revenue streams for local gubbermint .
Not quite as good as Oliver Cromwell's taxation plan of English colonial tabaco farmers in the Carolinas I wager but close!
Tuercas viejas
 

st13phil

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I message and a couple of days on, as it's on a personal plate they want the earlier V5 and the present V5 to compare the VIN and check the vehicle for exemption. Fair enough but when a new V5 arrives we are instructed to destroy any previous V5's.
A perfect example of the lack of joined-up thinking that characterises so many of these schemes. It really is Kafkaesque.
 
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horatio

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Well sitting over on this side of the pond & reading that if nothing else its a creative way in stealth taxation , & creating a strong revenue streams for local gubbermint .
Not quite as good as Oliver Cromwell's taxation plan of English colonial tabaco farmers in the Carolinas I wager but close!
Tuercas viejas
Virtually identical schemes are popping up in other Europe countries.

Once set up, they will obviously move through other types and ages of car in short order - probably hitting petrols over a certain C02 figure next. Potentially time of day limitations too. Essentially a phase out of car ownership in small enough steps not to bring out the pitchforks.
 
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markjay

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Well sitting over on this side of the pond & reading that if nothing else its a creative way in stealth taxation , & creating a strong revenue streams for local gubbermint .
Not quite as good as Oliver Cromwell's taxation plan of English colonial tabaco farmers in the Carolinas I wager but close!
Tuercas viejas

It's not that simple.

The various 'cleaner air' schemes don't just include penalties and fines for polluting cars, but also subsidies and financial incentives for zero-exhaust-emissions cars.

As an example, a London business user, who leases a (say) VW ID.4 Life, will benefit from a government grant on the purchase price of the vehicle (reducing the monthly payments), BIK exemption, VED exemption, TfL CC exemption, and near-free parking in Central London. That's a massive financial benefit at the taxpayers' expense.

Admittedly I don't actually know if there's an overall net gain or net loss to the government here, but again it isn't a simple case of 'stealth taxation'.

At any rate, the OP was complaining about the bureaucracy and red tape, and disparate systems, rather than about the essence of ULEZ or CAZ charging.

The Cromwell analogy was amusing, though.
 
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GeeJayW

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Consider this: Without taxation, there is no government funding for defence, health care, infrastructure projects, etc. etc.
 

Petrol Pete

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Plastic (shopping bag ) tax ? Where does the 'tax' money go ? ...who knows ? because it's the retailer who collects the 'tax' by charging you for a bag decides where the money goes.

The bag for life thing is not working , the thicker bags use way more plastic than the thin ones and do not get as much 're use' as people think. The plan was when it wore out you took it back and they gave you a new one for free. That is not quite working out as planned either.

Off topic . Please return to original Whinge. Sorry.
 

markjay

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Plastic (shopping bag ) tax ? Where does the 'tax' money go ? ...who knows ? because it's the retailer who collects the 'tax' by charging you for a bag decides where the money goes.

The bag for life thing is not working , the thicker bags use way more plastic than the thin ones and do not get as much 're use' as people think. The plan was when it wore out you took it back and they gave you a new one for free. That is not quite working out as planned either.

Off topic . Please return to original Whinge. Sorry.

Why aren't we using recyclable brown paper bags like they do in supermarkets in America? A mystery.
 

Petrol Pete

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Because they are crap. I spent quite a while working in the USA a few years back (supposed to be returning in September if old Joe opens the borders) and no where that I shopped used them . Everywhere gave you thin plastic bags , as many as you wanted, for free.
 

whitenemesis

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Why aren't we using recyclable brown paper bags like they do in supermarkets in America? A mystery.
They are, as said, crap but they are also very much more expensive to transport..
 

Bellow

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The bag for life thing is not working , the thicker bags use way more plastic than the thin ones and do not get as much 're use' as people think.

The system was introduced in Scotland so long ago I've forgotten when and is working.
Shoppers walk to the supermarket door with bags from their car and back to their car with no additional bag having to be produced, transported or disposed of.
I'm still using the bags I first got and they are a bit battered and bruised - but still functioning.
The plan was when it wore out you took it back and they gave you a new one for free. That is not quite working out as planned either.
And without asking, I've been offered free replacements - which I declined and stuck with the original objective.
 

markjay

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Better for whom? The end user, yes, the supplier, yes, the planet, no... well not with the current plastic formulations

So, again, what not use paper bags....? Having a cake and eating it cones to mind.
 

Tuercas viejas

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Hey Guys
Got news for you , here in the US placky grocery bags are on the way out, they are for the unwashed masses who traditionally re-use them as trash bags ,.
Currently they (big chain grocery stores) are beginning charge 10 cents per bag, and here in Colorado to be phased out within two years .
Paper you can still get OK, but trendy shoppers are bringing their own bags,
Big name auto brand franchise dealerships like MB & Lexus GIVE you FOC nice durable fancy schmancy designer bags for carrying your groceries with . Their brand logo on the side OF COURSE when you buy lotsa parts . Lexus being more freely available than MB dealers.

Now as you know (or should) to be "anybody" in the US you have to be wearing designer clothing, especially if you are a golf club member, & have a designer wearing trophy wife! (Often a broomstick pilot in a broom factory preferred )
She drives "of course " a trophy custom designer car like $180,000 G wagon, so the local tax revenue streams from all this consumerism are more forth coming than paltry annoying silly fees dreamed up by Euro politicians.

After all where can you buy an ex military vehicle , like a Unimog, Hummer, Pinzgauer & Landrover.
Have designer army uniforms (BD's) tailored to your designer self , buy designer army weapons!
Form a designer group of "enfusiasts" for a winters night, 24 hours driving expedition, destination to the "Cold Butt camp out " site all the time shooting your AR15's at road signs en-route .
Ain't this a great country ,or what? :cool: :eek:

Tuerca Viejas

Oh as a P.S.
Oliver Cromwell's tax on English Settlers & tobacco farmers in the Carolinas was far more creative .
Clearly the Brutish parliament hasn't lost it edge and is alive and kicking with fees & stealth taxation for revenue streams. 👿

T/V

.
 

poormansporsche

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Plastic (shopping bag ) tax ? Where does the 'tax' money go ? ...who knows ? because it's the retailer who collects the 'tax' by charging you for a bag decides where the money goes.

The bag for life thing is not working , the thicker bags use way more plastic than the thin ones and do not get as much 're use' as people think. The plan was when it wore out you took it back and they gave you a new one for free. That is not quite working out as planned either.

Off topic . Please return to original Whinge. Sorry.


I'm pretty sure we (At Aldi) pay the plastic bag tax on the amount we actually buy not what we actually sell. Which is why the plastic bags somewhat annoyingly are now hidden behind the tills.
 

Tuercas viejas

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I'm pretty sure we (At Aldi) pay the plastic bag tax on the amount we actually buy not what we actually sell. Which is why the plastic bags somewhat annoyingly are now hidden behind the tills.
That's the tricky dicky bit !
You are being taxed but you don't know it!
Reminds me of my late Londoner mother's frequent saying
What yah don''t know can't urchah mate.
Tuercas viejas
 

markjay

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So, again, why not use paper bags....?

OK, I googled it, and this is what I found:

"The trouble with paper bags: carbon emissions.... it takes significantly more energy to create pulp and manufacture a paper bag than it does to make a single-use plastic bag from oil."
 

Tuercas viejas

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OK, I googled it, and this is what I found:

"The trouble with paper bags: carbon emissions.... it takes significantly more energy to create pulp and manufacture a paper bag than it does to make a single-use plastic bag from oil."
Exactly!
That is why in the Peoples Republic of Boulder Colorado, paper bags were banned several years go.
Tuercas Viejas
 

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